Dark Romance

:: 00:00

Okay, so today, Jenn and I are going to be discussing what is dark romance and coming up with the scale, and so I just want to read this definition from paperback model that kind of explains how we feel what dark romance is, and then we're going to dive deeper into it. So this is how what they say what dark romance is. Dark romance is where passion intertwines with forbidden desires and tainted love dances with the darkness. We are immersed in a genre that thrives on sparking the senses by weaving, contradicting emotions and power dynamics around the very best and worst unconventional relationships. End quote. You want me to go first, Jenn? Should you say hi, hello, okay, so to me, dark romance.

Dark romance pushes boundaries. It's on the fringes of society, it has topics of forbidden and taboo and it's not accepted within the standards of modern society. It has like unconventional norms and then, of course, the triggers and the content warnings. Yeah, it's what I feel like all composes what dark romance is. But Jenn and I were just doing some research for this and we were checking out some lists, and there are books listed on there that we don't quite agree with. So that's why we're going to come up with the scale and break it down. So one of the maybe we should use 50 shades as like a base point, or should we use something else.

:: 01:27

I think that's no. I you know it's funny, I was thinking the same thing. I think 50 shades is one that's really well known, like the content is really well known. I think it gives us a good like base to go off of. Okay.

:: 01:41

And that would be like a one star 50 shades, I feel like would be a one star for me with dark romance.

:: 01:49

So like one star, as in, it's just not that dark or what. Like one star because it's 50 shades of gray and like we've all matured so much since then.

:: 02:01

Okay, so this is how we're going to do the scale. It's going to be either based on the romance, like the couple, is that dark? Is it the environment that makes it dark, or is it the themes that make it dark? Or all three, or all three? I don't think any of these are an issue with 50 shades. BDSM is a very popular kink. It's not dark, it's just a sexual preference.

:: 02:25

I totally agree that the BDSM, like the Dom sub themes throughout that series, don't classify it as dark. I feel like BDSM is its own genre, right, but I feel like what could or what likely got 50 shades on the dark romance list is the abuse that Christian went through as a child and the probably what the one spanking scene in book one that was like borderline too much for her, obviously Like yeah, you know, I don't think he fully educated her prior to that. Granted, she pushed him, but still I don't. I think those are the really the only two things that would push it into the dark genre.

:: 03:17

I agree with that and I'm even going to go a step further and say that that little bit of taboo where he's talking about how the reason why he likes the brunette subs is because it reminds him of his mom. But that is just like even all those things, it's a tiny drop within the series, right, like it's not. I don't, I don't know, I feel like I don't, I don't think it's a dark romance.

:: 03:42

I completely agree. I think, like you said, like there are a couple of dark themes, because the other one I remembered is he did end up subbing as a child for his mother's best friend. So, like again, I agree that there are dark themes.

:: 03:59

So then, another thing to add to the layer of defining it is whether or not it happens on page or off page. Right, because we don't see the abuse. We learn it second hand. So I feel like that. So I feel like, if we're doing the scale like one would be things that are off page, right, you can have the themes in the dark content, but if it's off page, yeah.

:: 04:24

Yeah, I like it Well, but I'm like it can be anything off page. It could be like the content was off page, it could be that, you know. I mean, oh my gosh, a popular dark theme is like what you were saying earlier, like mafia, serial killer, like, if it's not on the page, like it. Just it lowers the rating.

:: 04:45

Yeah, because I've been deceived by reading a mafia romance and there's like they're just in the mafia, right, and they got money and that's it, and they have henchmen and nothing else and I'm like this is not a dark romance. So that would be like off the page, so that would be like a one star or one check or what do we want?

:: 05:01

Do we want it to be?

:: 05:02

stars. No, I was thinking we could do skulls. Oh my gosh. Yes, One skull, Okay. So one skull for dark romance means the elements whether it's the romance, the environment or the theme happens off page. Yeah, I love that. Okay, so now we need to do two skulls. Okay, I feel like the spectrum is just like off page on page and then well, I feel like it's, then it's like a matter of okay.

:: 05:29

So I think a good potentially, depending on where we land on the scale, a good two skull could be. There are no saints, there is no devil, because he only kills on page one time and then that's really the only time that you like, like you're going through that scene with him.

:: 05:52

Okay, how would we break that down though?

:: 05:54

I think it's a matter of like. If it only happens on page, let's say between one and three times, and the entire series two to three books, then like we're not going to up level it.

:: 06:08

For reference for one skull, it's 50 shades for two skulls. We're doing the no saints series as our baseline. Yeah, for now. Are we okay with that? For now, yeah, and they change by the end of this Exactly Okay. Okay, let's back up. What is the darkest romance novel you have read?

:: 06:29

Okay, so that's a great question that you feel to.

:: 06:31

You do need to think, because I can tell you my to.

:: 06:34

Okay, yeah, you go first and then tell me like what happened on the page and like what the themes are, and then I can kind of go off of that.

:: 06:42

Okay. So this I read consequences, the first book by Aleatha Romig, and I don't know if I'm pronouncing her name correctly, but this was before I got into dark romance and I could not finish the series. I only read book one because of the abuse. So he marries this woman for revenge and like beat her and like sexually assault her while they're married and then like does the gas I in the manipulation, and I read that in like the mid 2000s and that was like really I could probably read it now and it not be a problem, but that was like. I was like there's no way I can read the rest of the series. Like he set her up for, like pretending to murder him, and like that wasn't the part, it was just the way that he treated her and her being so naive, and I just I couldn't do that. So that's one.

And then, on the same spectrum, Tillie Cole has the Hangman series and I got to like book three or four because I have an issue with Colts and having sex with little girls as an excuse because of whatever power they believe in. So those two are like, though, like, like I said, I got to like book four, three or four, and like I had to take a break because it was just too it was too much I couldn't. But I've read Boddice Rippers like. I've read like other things, serial killers like lots of non-com like, but those two for whatever reason, there was just something triggering that was just like I need. I need to go watch like I don't know what's a good palette cleanser. Bluey Cookie Moms are on now Like something like Blue's Clues, like something to like. So those are like my two, I think, for triggering Dark for me.

:: 08:21

Okay, so I've read Still Beating by Jennifer Harmon and that is like on a lot of like the dark romance lists and that didn't really bother me. So just to give you, the audience like y'all, some backstory, the ones that did, or the one is Sea of Ruin by Pam Godwin.

They're what triggered me where there were multiple I'm talking like I can think of four or five at least, probably considerably more than that Explicit rape and sexual assault and abuse scenes to her from the main male characters and I feel like that's another line in Dark Romance, like we're so many times like you have those themes, but like not with who you know the female ends up with, and that was the case in this book and it. I mean there are very mixed reviews on like if it ends in a happy ever after. I was happy with how it ended, but it was still very just. It was too. I got about 71% in and I ended up posting on Facebook like does she end up happy? Because if she doesn't, I am out. Like I am not going through this with her anymore. Like this is heart-wrenching.

So that was the most triggering, almost couldn't finish book for me. I would say the next one for me would be Hunting and Haunting Adeline by HD Carlton. I didn't struggle so much with those, it was more like this is really fucked up and I you know I struggled more once. Spoiler alert, so skip ahead 30 seconds if you don't want to know. Like once she was captured and like sold into sex work, like that's where it really, really bothered me. But everything up to that like him being a stalker and serial on a live her and like those things like that that all was fine.

:: 10:17

I have not read either of those, but I feel like I need to know. Okay, so now let's talk about why we like dark romance. You want to go first, Jenn, or do you want?

:: 10:26

me to go first. You have a lot more experience in this than I do.

:: 10:31

So I like it because it's it's a darker aspect, but also because it's unpredictable, like we know how romance novels going to end Boy meets girl, they fall in love. There's a miscommunication 90% of the time, especially if it's contemporary or some kind of black moment. They break up and then they come back together. Right Tale as old as time, which is fine. But with the darker romance while, yes, that is part of it, it's not always the case. It might not always be girl meets boy. It might be boy sees girl, he stalks her, then kidnaps her, and then you know and like you never know what you're going to get.

Are they going to kill each other? Are they going to fall in love? Are they going to go murder somebody else? Like, is it mafia? Like is somebody trying to take over? Is it the Irish mob? Like you just don't know Right, maybe he was stalking her or she was stalking him, and then somebody tries to kill him and then she intervenes and then you know it's just. I love it because I love them more really gray and I love the anti-villain, but most importantly, I think, is because I don't know. Have you seen that meme on social media where it's like the hero will not do everything to protect you, right, his job is to, like, protect everybody else, but the villain's like no, no, no, no, I'm going to destroy the fucking world for you. And I like that aspect because I think being a first priority in a romance novel is important.

:: 11:53

I like it.

:: 11:55

That's fine. Okay, so thank you for coming to me today.

:: 12:00

I would have to say like, okay, I wanted to start doing a dark romance buddy read because we're entering spooky season and I needed books to go with my spooky season aesthetic. But, however, I think one of the reasons why I was drawn to it is it is it is the unpredictability of it, it's the constant like on your toes type of thought process, because I've always like my. When I read books it was almost always crime, paranormal, like when I've started you know 1516, really getting into like novels, and now as an adult. The other thing that I like about dark romance is they just do spice so well, and that's one thing that contemporary although I love my Tessa Bailey and I love my Lucy school or I love my Emily Henry and you get some of that spice it's just not the same. Like there is no one being strapped down to a table and given like 25 orgasms within you know few hour period, like that just doesn't happen with Lucy scores books, which is fine. But like I like my spice, so dark romance does spice so well.

:: 13:26

I agree with that. I definitely agree with that. And it's and it's not always vanilla right. It's not always in the bedroom, it's not always with one person, it's not always with just people. Like, yeah, the variety I think is better in dark romance for sure.

:: 13:41

Just people it's a good point, though, I mean it's true that needs to go on a t shirt.

:: 13:51

Objects and fruit and fruit.

:: 13:54

Why did my brain go to like pale?

:: 13:57

That's going to be our first merch item. I wasn't even thinking. I didn't even get to the monster mash or the aliens yet. That's like totally, that's a whole other. But yeah, I guess, okay. So here's a question for you Do you totally sidetracked? Do you think that monster romance or alien romance? Well, I guess it depends. Okay, never mind. I was going to say, do you think it would fall under dark romance? But because it's, you know, bestiality with the monsters, almost right.

Like even if it's a contemporary theme, because you know we're not going to be like, you know it's a win to go or like, whatever it is, it's still. It's that taboo, anyways, okay. So yeah, I don't even know how to, how to put that down.

:: 14:40

Well, and I think it's going to be personal, it's part of it's going to be personal preference too, because, like you know your triggers, my triggers may not trigger other people where, like the triggers that didn't bother me in, you know, haunting Adeline, especially when she's stalking him or he's stalking her and chasing her, and that sort of thing Like that, could very easily trigger somebody else.

:: 15:00

Yeah, what if? I don't know if that worked, maybe three skulls would be, if the, or even the three skulls could be, if the darker romance is the relationship like? Maybe if it's like forbidden or taboo, stepbrother, step sister, or like credence with. You know, penelope Douglas with the brothers and the. Is it a step uncle or was he really her uncle? I can't. I think we talk about this all the time. It was step you can never remember.

:: 15:24

Yes, yeah, we do.

:: 15:25

And it's step. It was step, uncle, that's what your mind's at.

:: 15:30

Well, uncle Jake is a hottie with a body, yeah, he is.

:: 15:35

Maybe that's how we need to break up the break it up Three skulls would be like if the dark romance is the relationship. Yeah, and that's yeah.

:: 15:44

So are we maxing at three skulls or is it? Is it going to be like three skulls and then four? Five skulls is where it's all. Three themes Like the relationship is taboo, you have content warnings and the environment is dark.

:: 15:59

I think five skulls should have all three. Okay, agreed, definitely, just cause, like you said, like it's personal, so then maybe we only have. So maybe this is what we do. Maybe one star or one skull is off page. Two skull would be the relationship, three skull would be the environment, and then four skull would be the theme, and then five skull would be all of them. Okay, I like it, are we? Do we like that? Yeah, so we're just, with no saying, to be in the baseline for the relationship because you know he was stalking her like he did the. Well, you have to do this, otherwise you're going to die, whether by my hand or whatever. The other dude's name was Shaw, right? Maybe you know how I am with names. Yes, I do.

:: 16:46

Okay no-transcript.

:: 16:48

One skull off page to skull relationship. Three skull environment, four skulls themes and five skulls all three of those. I like it Well, technically be all four, because then it would be on page. Yeah, okay, is there anything else we need to talk about with dark Romeo?

:: 17:06

I don't think so. I think we worked on our dark romance scale. I feel like, okay, so to give our Listeners like what we're going to be scaling when we review the books, we're gonna be scaling the dark romance, the spiciness and Then our rating for the book overall. Do we have a scale for spiciness? I was just about to see if I could find the scale that I really liked on.

:: 17:34

Is that the tick-tock that you sent me? Did I? You sent me one. I mean I send you lots. I'm pretty sure you sent me one, because I really liked that scale.

:: 17:43

I probably did send it to you. I found it, yay. Okay, so here's her scale. A bell pepper is closed door, fade to black. One chili pepper is less than three scenes. Two is some, but not tons, and it's not super descriptive. So think like Emily Henry if you've ever read her, that's who I think, where she might be. A one too, three, giving us all the deets, making us sweat, and then four would be lots of smut, but not necessarily very kinky. And then five is lots of smut and the kinks.

:: 18:18

I like that spicy level. I could be down with that.

:: 18:30

Okay, so to let y'all know, here's the scale. It's Mistie's scale. And one star is just no, like it's not something that we would recommend. Two is it wasn't bad, but it wasn't appetizing. Three is it was good, we enjoyed it. You should totally check it out. Four is it was good. There was a little something extra that pulled at me. And five is devoured, couldn't put it down or was surprised by it.

Okay, that should conclude this episode. Yeah, yeah, I like it. Okay, listeners, let us know how you define dark romance, what would be your rating system and list the most darkest romance novel you have read. Thank you for listening.

Transcribed by https://podium.page