Episode 11
Romance Terminology
On this literary adventure, we explore the whimsical world of romance terminology, a lexicon that binds together the hearts of readers and writers alike.
Content Highlights:
- Jenn coined a new term RTR
- Public Service Announcement - Always check the triggers/content warnings
- It might be way too early for this conversation
Terms we discuss - Romancelandia, HEA / HFN, Cliffhanger, Standalone / Series / Shared Universe / Interconnected, TBR, DNF / DNR Trash, Trope / Kink, Smut, Trigger Warnings (TW) / Content Warnings (CW), Dubious Consent (Dub Con), Consensual Non-Consent (CNC), Non-Consensual (Non-Con), Reverse Harem (RH) / Why Choose / Poly, Sword Crossing, Omegaverse, Ship / Shipping
Character initials and pairings: H/h, MC / MMC / MFC, FF or F/F, MM or M/M, MF, MFM / MMF, MMMF / MMFM
Transcript
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Bones with a Storie. Today we are doing an episode where we talk about romance terminology, and some of this you may already know, so we'll probably start off a little bit easier, but we just decided to have this conversation and discuss some of the key phrases or words that we use when discussing romance novels, and possibly some terms that would be foreshadowing some future episodes. Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. We'll see. So, without further ado, I think we're going to jump in with the first one, which I can never pronounce right Romance Lydia Landia. I don't know how to say that, but that is literally what the romance fandom is named when you're on any like social media R-O-M-A-N-C-E-L-A-N-a-n-d-i-a yeah, romancelandia, I've never heard of that oh yeah, it's hashtagged everywhere.
That is what they call. I don't know who came up with the name or how it was coined, but it has been there for a minute so. And then do we want to go back and forth or like both say things or Whatever. I love that we never actually plan things. I just kind of wing it.
::I don't plan anything for my podcast either.
::That's awesome, okay, I don't plan anything for my podcast either. That's awesome, okay. So the next one that's on the list is H-E-A and H-F-N, which is Happily Ever After and Happily For Now, not happily Happy For Now.
::Don't like that.
::Oh, you don't like those.
::No, I don't like. Happy For Now, like no, it's just Happy Ever After, if it's a happy for now, unless there is a subsequent book or subsequent books, I don't want it.
::I think the happy for now is normally that. So, like one of the examples I use is, is the like the 50 shades of gray trilogy, like the first two books, are happy for now. Well, maybe not the first one, but the whole trilogy is a happily ever after, because you get that conclusion at the end of book three, but it's the leading up to it.
::That makes sense.
::And then I guess we don't have to do all of these. We could just pick and choose what we want. Then there's I put all the initials at the bottom for most of them.
::Oh yeah, okay. So then we've got what?
::I don't know. I definitely think that we should, probably Because trash was asked for, but I think we should probably do smut. Maybe some of the ones after that I mean, or we could do all of them. Fuck, let's just. I mean I'm down for it. If we got time, let's talk about all that we can till we can't yeah, that works for me okay, so you want to do the next one all right.
::so the next one is a cliffhanger, so this is where the book ends at some pinnacle within the story. So someone's left most likely like not in great scenarios At least for dark romance. Like Rune and Hunt in the freaking torture chambers and then fucking Earth and Blood ends, or no Sky and Breath.
It took me a second to realize what series you were talking about rune dannon crown prince of the vabaran it took me a minute oh well, I haven't even had a full cup of coffee yet, so we're slow going this morning. Normally I'm on my second cup.
::Okay, that was a good example, though, even though I was lost for a second.
::I mean, I guess I could have mentioned Bryce, but no, that was perfect. Rude's more important Okay.
So, then we've got standalone series, shared universe and interconnected. So these are like different ways to explain how authors, books, work, depending on what it is you're reading at the time. So standalone, there's like no interconnecting world or story or anything else. It's literally you can read just that book and nothing else happens in other books that are connected to that one, and then a series is you should read them in subsequent order. So, like Akatar Doughnut Glass I was trying to think of like a dark romance series. You would know better than I would.
::Bonds that tie.
::Yeah, and then you have a shared universe. So this is where the author has created a world of some sort, and by world we mean like it doesn't have to. I thought for a long time like the world was just fantasy. This is simply whatever background the author is putting their characters on. So, for example, I just read Icebreaker and Wildfire. That's a shared universe, but you don't have to read them to understand what's happening in the other one. So they're both set in California, they're both set at with college kids. The college kids in each book kind of like know of each other or know each other. So it's a shared universe, not necessarily like no overarching plot or anything. What are what's some dark romance? Shared universe ones?
::I'm pretty sure there in a second the take james her, her stuff is interconnected right because you've got. I would say that are you talking about the Madison Kate series or the Madison Kate and the hate the Hades series? So, madison, Kate the four books is a series.
::Well, yeah, okay, so like you have this series within their own thing, but like, but you know, like it's. I don't know that it wouldn't be shared universe or interconnected, because they really don't have overarching thoughts together, but they all, like Hades knows of. I can't even remember the books that we read.
::Yeah, this is one of the things that I think is struggled with these two. They could almost mean the same thing, but to me I think shared universe is like the example that you gave. Like you have all these kids that go to one university and let's say it's, you know, it's the hockey team, like the five players on the hockey team I'm pretty sure there's more than five players, but like whatever and each one of those, those team members, get a book. Right. That's like a shared universe where interconnected is maybe something like it's the same thing, but the couple from, like the first book you also still see in like book three. And or I think the Bully series by Penelope Douglas is a really good interconnected because you haven't read the Bully series, have you?
::I want you to read the bully series so you have to decide which bully series you're gonna make me read. Because you only get one, can I not do three.
::I'll read a second when you read lucy score, okay, do can it be any lucy score or a specific one you want me to read?
no, I don't care, they're all okay, fantastic so I just so you'll read one and then I have to read a lucy score and then you have to read another one. Yes, okay, y'all heard it here first folks, but I think interconnected maybe. Maybe interconnected could be like janine frost or like nalene seeing the guild hunter, where multiple books are about the same couple and then every once in a while you have, like, the side characters get their story. But it's still interconnected, that's what I would say?
::yeah, I think that's probably the best representation of an interconnected story, because you're not just sharing the universe, you're also sharing an overarching plot through all 20 books yeah, I think you explained those very well.
::Thank you, Jenn, because I don't think I could have done it oh thanks. So next we have tbr which is to be read. And side note, for those people who say that they have finished their TBR list, they are liars and or they only had like 10 books and or they're only new readers and they don't know what a real TBR list is. So if you're one of those people out there, email us. I want to talk. I need to know how many books you had on your list to make you say that you've completed it because that's just not true.
::Maybe they completed what their focus was at the time. We could finish our TBR jar, maybe eventually one day, if we stop adding to it.
::Sure, where's that? The magical jar that's sitting right there. Yeah, if we never added to it, absolutely we could totally get it done. But I just don't think that it's possible. Like if you had like a list of like 10 books, hey, these are the 10 books I want to read this year. So you completed that tbr. I think that's in the shared universe of your tbr. Okay, it's not the full thing. I'm just I just I'm just really curious. Like I actually want to speak to somebody who was like said that they have finished their TBR and I was like okay, well, how many books were on there like these are? These are questions that I have. I'm curious. I mean no disrespect, I'm coming from a place of curiosity.
I've never heard anybody say that, so well, I see those videos on social media like oh oh, I finished my TBR and I don't know if they're joking or serious, but I just need to know. So next we have DNF and DNR, which is did not finish or did not read, which you guys may be familiar with. That because we have our segment when we do have our season, when we have our season wrap up, to talk about the buddy reads that we did not finish or read. I don't think we have any for this, do I? No go.
::I was going to say. I feel like there needs to be an acronym for like refuses to read.
::RTR. There we go. We just created a new acronym. You heard it here first. Refuse to read RTR.
::Yeah, and that's how Jenn feels about some of the really wanted me to read it and they felt that I would like it or enjoy it or it would make for a good discussion that I wouldn't absolutely read but, like when I think of books, I refuse in quotation marks basically Colleen Hoover. Okay.
I take my statement back as damn corrected that's the only author that like and honestly, apparently like what she writes is good. I just I can't and this is gonna sound so funny for someone who likes dark romance I can't read and enjoy books that have like that level of emotional warfare for kicks and giggles, like if we're going to have, like if you're going to play on my emotions and like, make me feel things for characters, like it has to serve a purpose. I don't want to read something about, like what actually could happen in real life, because that just makes me sad. Yeah, you know, like, so just no, thank you.
::I feel like that's reasonable. That's your baseline. I I don't. That's not true. There are a lot of things that I would like refuse to read. Contemporary would be historical, not a fan of historical yeah okay.
So the next one on our list is trash, which is a word that I think I use more than Jenn. I don't think Jenn has actually ever used that to describe anything. No, I think for me, trash is just a catch-all to say that I didn't like it. Instead of saying I didn't like it, I just say it was trash. I don't think it has really any general meaning, and it could be because of multiple of things. It could be because I didn't like the characters, or it could be because I didn't like a scene, or I didn't like how it ended, like there's no trigger for one thing, it's just what's. Another example it's just a catch-all. Trash is what it is. It's a can with a garbage bag and it's a catch-all. It catches all the things, whether it's a box or leftover food or you know cat shit, it's trash.
::I don't know how else to explain. It makes sense to me okay. I feel like okay, so the next one we have are like tropes and kinks. I feel like we could do an entire episode just on those two things lots of foreshadowing so many things. Okay, so a trope, are like certain scenes or like you might have to help me on this one like plot points or certain scenarios that happen with. So like enemies to lovers, is a trope, the one bed trope. Who did this to you?
::is a trope yeah, forced proximity.
::Forced proximity. Oh my God, I love forced proximity Curvy girl like that's its own. You know trope, I mean you could basically anything that you can pull out of the story as part of like what made that story happen.
::Like a theme.
::Yeah, yeah, theme. There you go, yeah, and I always one of my favorite things to hear about with other and I would love, like, if y'all find us on like Instagram or threads or TikTok or whatever, like I want y'all to tell us what your off the wall trope is.
::Can we save that for an episode Like don't share yours right now. We're going to do that later, okay.
::Yeah, I want to know, I want to know, okay. And then kinks are like the different, like sexual, different Like.
::Sexual expression.
::No, I want to say sexual expression.
::It's more like it's the opposite of the trope.
::There's sexual preferences, okay, so I mean there's and again, this could be an entire series. There's so many different types of kinks, right, but, like I mean, it can be as simple as, like you know, someone likes their hands tied, or it can be as like intense as like knife and blood play. I can't think of anything else more intense than knife or blood play there's praise kink degradation there's, there's even like rape kinks yeah, dab con non-con, which we're going to talk about here in a minute. We'll go into more detail what that means.
::I mean I don't, even, I don't even think you're right, this could be a whole episode, so we should probably.
::And again, the thing that I like about kinks and that's what can make it difficult to sometimes rate things is like you can have like a very simple, like kink relationship and then you can go into like full blown, like 24 hour power exchange kink. That would be interesting read, and I still have no idea how I feel about it is as she's told by. I think her name was Annika Jacobs so now I need to read this book.
Okay, S and it was. I would love to have a discussion about that book, because there's so many themes in there that are very controversial that I'm I'm just so intensely curious what other people think about it. Okay, I'll add it to my list, okay um smut, so I classify smut as like, if I want to read smut. It is a book with little to no plot so erotica, yeah, basically.
Yeah, like a like a better name for erotica, so like I think of priest by sierra um simone, okay that's not erotica, though, so that's interesting, but like there's no plot, it's just sex, basically. Well, there's basically zero plot. The only plot Hold on hold on.
::I have to think, because I read Priest when it first came out, so like I need to. Okay, so the definition of erotica is if you take the sex out, there's nothing else to read. I feel like if you took the sex out of priest, there would still be a storyline, because he's struggling with his faith and whether or not he wants to, you know.
::Continue yeah, but the only reason he starts struggling is because she shows up, right because he falls in love with her or lust again.
::I read it when it first came out. So. But they he could still fall in love and loss with her without having the sex that's boring well, obviously he wants to read that.
That's why we're at. Oh, this is why we read what we read. So I've heard people explain that smite is just sex in a book and I'm like there's a lot there's. There's varying degrees of that, you know, because you have open door, you have fade to black, you have closed door, like you have off the page, like yeah, I feel like I don't know.
::I mean, I I when I like, if I'm going to read smite, it's something with like very little plot yeah, that's not the.
::The focus is sex, right, like there's a whole bunch of sex, right.
::Now, granted, you have other people who think like, a court of silver flames is smutty.
::I know, and that's like the whole. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, okay, I'm never mind, I'm not gonna say oh no, oh no.
You're saying now I don't know what it is, but you're telling me something this is why people are gonna end up hating this'm sorry If anybody told me that Crescent City was smut. I would never take any book recommendations from them again, because they don't know what they're talking about and they probably need to go into a nunnery and like, just stay away from the world. That is not smut. That is not smut. That is not smut. That's just everyday life Like. I don't even remember her going into detail.
::Listen. The only thing that I remember prior to Flame and Shadow was Hunt's little like lightning electricity trick on Bryce's happy button, and that was interesting.
::And that was pretty much the only thing that I was like oh, that sounds fun. Okay, yeah, that's not smut. So see, that kind of goes back to people who think if there's a sex scene, then all of a sudden it's smut in a book.
::Right, that's what I was going to say. It's like Emily Henry is a really good example. Like she has on the page sex and there's even, like you know, her scenes are pretty good. Same thing with Allie Hazelwood. Like both of them write great sex scenes, but it's like it's vanilla sex and it's typically only two scenes, maybe throughout the entire book. So for me that's just a romance novel. It's not. It's not smut.
::Honestly, I don't even like the term smut, to be honest. I mean, I don't like it, I don't hate it, I just I think it's too convoluted and there are too many varying degrees of it to possibly come to a consensus on what smut means. But anything by Sarah J Maas is not smut.
::So okay, so a good smut. Author would be who I'm trying to think.
::Oh I don't know.
::I think you could get away with like it and and and again. You're talking like varying degrees, like semi-wholesome smut would be tessa bailey, in my opinion. Like her stuff gets a little dirtier than like contemporary romance normally does. She has typically several scenes throughout the book, even if it's only 300 pages and it's detailed, I think what.
::I guess I'm old school and I'm stuck on erotic and erotica and I think smut is a catch all for that, instead of differentiating between the two. So we I spoke that erotica is, if you take the sex out, there's no plot, the whole thing is about sex. But erotic is spicy, it's dirty, it's. You know Maya Banks.
::I would consider she writes some erotic yeah, you'll find her in the erotic section at half off books.
::I was looking at my bookshelf to see if I could think of anything and all I see is paranormal, because that's all. I'm not to say that paranormal can't be erotic, but I feel like. I feel like smut is the catch-all between the two and I don't even think I've ever used the word smut because, again, it's not clearly defined for me. But I like the way that you're defining it and providing the examples, except for the Sarah J Moss, and I don't think I'm going to get over that very soon, like probably never, because that's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And I want somebody who believes that to come and talk to us because we're going to debate.
::Well, and I think there's, I think, when someone first gets into, because I started with ACOTAR Well, ok, actually I started with Credence was my very first book back into reading, and then I went into ACOTAR.
::OK, credence, that's erotic. You're talking about penelope douglas.
::credence, right yeah I would call that erotic but if you take the sex out, there's plenty of plot left erotica is if you take the sex out. Oh, okay, okay Then, yeah, yeah, like I would say, credence is erotic yeah.
::So erotic is what E-R-O-C-I-T no.
::The fuck. No, we'll get there. Try again. You're so close.
::E-R-O-T-I-C. And then erotica is erotic, a good lord. It's not like it's like six o'clock in the morning or anything, and, yeah, functioning brain power so like I feel like if someone starts because so many people do, they start with akatar.
::from akatar like literally I'm not saying this series Akatar like A Court of Thorns and Roses to A Court of Silver Flames. By the time you get into A Court of Silver Flames, if that is your baseline for smut, a Court of Silver Flames is spicy. That rating doesn't go down until you add other books and widen your horizons a bit and then you can say that wasn't all that smutty. The ritual is stupid smutty. It's the same thing with our dark scale.
::Our dark scale we have to redefine what that is, because now we have a new baseline.
::You can't be logical at six o'clock in the morning, Jenn, I'm just saying you are absolutely 100% right.
::I don't disagree, I'm just saying but I love you anyways. That is a very good point and you are right.
::Because I love you too.
::But I'm still going to stand by my.
::So we chatted about smut, now trigger warnings, content warnings. I'm going to let you take this one. And also, is there a difference between trigger and content warnings.
::No, they're the same thing. That's why I put them together. Just, some people use trigger, some people use content. I would say that they are the same thing. So trigger warnings or content warnings is the equivalent of hey. Here are the themes, tropes, slash, kinks that are going to be in this book that may be sensitive to some readers. Please read them.
There's nothing more that drives an avid reader such as Jenn and myself, that you read a book, you don't look at the warnings and then all of a sudden you're pissed off because it had a kissing scene and you don't want to read kissing books.
But in the warnings it says this book contains kissing. Like, just don't, just don't, like. That's not fair to the readers who don't have an issue with that, when you go and say, oh, this is a horrible book because it had kissing, and that's not fair to the authors who are writing, because you didn't take the time to know what your boundaries are and to make sure that your boundaries weren't going to be violated by checking those lists Totally went on a tangent. Sorry, but trigger warnings and content warnings list the items that are going to be in the book, such as you know, you know blood and knife play, appraise kink degradation, uh sex on the page um accidental cannibalism, other women, uh enemies to lovers, like cheating trope, like for all that is out there. If you know that there are things that you don't want to read, that cross the line for your personal boundaries, which there's nothing wrong with it. That's why they have these warnings.
::Yep.
::Read them first, yep, please. Or you know they always have them in the book or the author website, or contact the author directly, because they have no problem answering your question. Hey, is there kissing on the page? The author will tell you yes or no, and then you know hey, I can't read this because there's kissing and I don't like kissing. Simple as that.
::I don't know how else I'd explain it no, that's great, I'm gonna let you take dub con con non-con and non-con the hardest things on here she's gonna give to the illogical, emotional, can't spell person not eloquent with words at all oh my.
::Okay, so dubious consent, or dub con, is how it sounds. You don't know. You, as the reader, are just as conflicted about the consent as the person that it's happening to.
::Yeah, so a good example of that I think would be when and I can't remember character names A good example of that I think would be when and I can't remember character names but like when in the ritual the guy drugs her and then like messes with her when she's knocked out. That would be a good example of dub con, because at that point they're already in the relationship.
::I was no, I wouldn't call that because she after no, I wouldn't call that because she after no, I wouldn't call that. I would call that non-consensual because she wasn't aware. So dubious non or dubious consent is she? Let's say she was drugged but she wasn't knocked out, but she didn't say no. Hmm, okay, that would be dubious consent. You know, when we're reading dark romance and you know the, the main male character like pushes her up against the wall, you know, gives her a hand necklace. She doesn't say no, but she turns her head sideways but then he brings her face back and then he kisses her. That's dubious consent, right? Because then all of a sudden, after he kisses her, whatever triggers in our body to make us like being kissed, and then and then maybe she pulls her mouth away again and then he brings it back, but she never says no.
That would be dubious consent to me, debcon yeah, okay consensual, non-consent is some of those kinks or tropes where you want to be dominated. You don't want to have any say, you have rape fantasies. So you have said, hey, at some point I want you to sneak into my room while I'm asleep, do whatever you want to do with me, no matter what I say, and you have two hours to do it. But you don't know when it's going to happen. So you have consented to non-consent action because you've set that boundary ahead of time. Or it could be in role playing, you know it could be anything like that.
I think a consensual, non-consent or even dubious consent could be. You speak, you know the main female character speaks to the main male character and it's like, hey, what the hell is it? It's Samia, something, there's a word. But you can have sex with me while I'm asleep. You can do sexual things to me while I'm asleep and if I wake up, that's great. If not, then I'm okay, because you have verbalized that and it still falls in the dubcom, because you are unconscious, but you have given consent that it's okay to do it and that you are comfortable with this person so that they could do it at any time.
Yeah, and then non-consensual is the opposite of all those. I have said no, I don't want it. It is still happening. Yeah, so non-con is, you know, let's go back to that the, the main male character pushing the main female character up against the wall with the neck collar, which neck collar collar just means his hands wrapped around his throat or a hand necklace, and she's saying no, and he still continues to kiss her, and then all the things. So that would be non-consensual. Yeah, wow, I feel like I did that really well.
::You did. I think you did a great job.
::I was really surprised with myself. Is there anything you would like to add to any of those four that I may have missed or not? Okay, cool, nope, man, I accomplished something great. We're doing so good today, Jenn. I love it. Do you want to do the next one or do you want me to? I mean, I can finish out the rest of the list. If you want to do the initials, sure that works, we can list. If you want to do the initials, sure that works, we can go every other way that works. So we have rh, which is reverse harem, or y2s or poly or polymorphous. I don't know if I actually pronounced that right, but that's how I what I say and that, just there we go. Thank you, you're welcome. I need you in my life. This is essentially where the main female character does not have to choose between the main characters that she's interested in and a reverse harem, where I choose has to be more than three people, three or more, like Males.
::Okay.
::It has to be more than three, because you have a menage a trois, which is three people including the female. So you cannot have two males with the female and it be considered a reverse harem. That's not how that works. It has to be three males or more for it to classify as a reverse harem, because otherwise then it's just a menage.
::Yeah, yeah.
::So I think that's a hard distinction, that some people don't realize that even though she has more than one love interest, that they just I a reverse harem or it's a why choose. I mean for a menage you can still use the term why choose, because she is not choosing one man, she has two. But it is not a reverse harem If there are only two males and they share a female. It is a menage and then sword crossing. So sword crossing means that within that menage or that reverse harem, the males are not just having sex with the female, the single female. The males are also having sex amongst themselves. They are crossing their swords. Which is the best kind of why choose I think there is.
::Agreed.
::Omegaverse. So Omegaverse is a universe that was created. Do you know the history behind Omegaverse, Jenn? How it was created? So it came from? No, go ahead. The Omegaverse was created off of Supernatural fanfic, which I think is phenomenal, because I love the TV show Supernatural.
::That's great.
::Yeah, and so the Omegaverse is essentially a different version of a paranormal. So in Omegaverse you have betas, omegas and alphas, and they take on the qualities of those traits, but they don't ever shapeshift. They remain in their human skin. So there's nodding, there's mating, there's strength, there's smell, but they remain human, which I love me. A good Omegaverse, nodding and nesting, which nodding and nesting are also tropes and kinks. So it all reverts back to that one, but yeah, omegaverse was created because of Supernatural. Verse. Back to that one. But yeah, Omega verse was created because of Supernatural, which just makes my heart happy. And then we have the word ship or shipping, and that just means that there are two characters that you want to be together, or should be together, or you change. So a good ship is Hermione and Malfoy. People ship them so hard, and if you haven't read Manicold, please do. It's the best fanfic out there that I've read so far about Hermione and Malfoy. Another good ship is Shadowboy and Elaine from from ACOTAR. Is it Elaine? What's her name?
::Oh, Asriel and Elaine.
::Yeah, elaine, that's a ship that people want, which will not happen. Hopefully it doesn't happen anyways that's a whole other story. Yeah, so that's a a good idea of what ship or shipping is when you hear that. And then now we've decided to do some character initials and pairings yeah, so we've got capital.
::H is your. That's only referring to the male right.
::Mm-hmm.
::Okay, so, like capital, h is your male hero, hero, male hero, and then lowercase h is your female heroine, and then you've got MC, which is main character, and then you have MMC, which is your main male character, and then you have MFC, which is main female character, which are all pretty self-explanatory, all right. And then we've got you have FF or F, slash F, and that means you have two females together. Mm is two males, mf is a male and a female, then you have MFM, and that is and you might have to correct me on these- Okay.
You have a male and female together and they bring their third person is a male that comes in. And then you have MMF you have two males together and they bring a female in. So like, if you have trying to think of an MFM that I've read, I don't have one. Hold on, I have a lot, but my favorite MMF is Sugar Daddies by Jade West. It's so good.
::Wait, Sugar Daddies is a menage, Jenn. If you would have told me this a long time ago, I would have read it a long time ago. That is very important detail, okay.
::Yeah, it's MMF and okay. So what I didn't know about sugar daddies is that it wasn't a daddy cake. I assumed it was a daddy cake and it's not. It also has the girl that gets involved with the uh male couple.
::uh is a horse girl, so it just yeah it was so good I like how you explain that, because that's not how I've ever interpreted and I think that yours is better, but I still want to share mine, if that's okay of course okay.
so the mfm I never thought it as a male and a female bringing in a male. It's, however, the characters, not the characters the letters are touching determines who they're having sex with. So MFM means that only the males have sex with the female, not with each other, and MMF means that the males also have have sex, but then they also have sex with the female yeah, but is it if the front m isn't touching the back f, is that m having sex with? Yes, it can, it can okay yeah sugar daddy.
::They're all, they're all doing it all together, yeah, yeah so I loved how you explained it.
::That was really, but mine and it's mostly to separate the male and the female. So the MM together just means that, yes, the males also have sex with the female. But sometimes you can have it to where just one male is having sex with the female and then that male is also having sex with the male. I've read that that happens in Belle Aurora's Raw. They're secondary characters that they share A male and a female. They're best friends. They share a boyfriend.
::My favorite and it was a polyamorous relationship and I don't think you and I have read any true poly and I guess this is the other thing that I would love to have a discussion with, like other book talkers, grammars, threaders, whatever readers is. So I loved, first of all. So one of my very favorite series that's also very smutty. Who is a good smut author is Katie Robert, taking Court of Vampire Queen Out of the Equation.
::Okay, thank you.
::You're welcome, but her Dark Olympus series is so good One of my favorite. It probably is my favorite smut series. One of my favorite. It probably is my favorite smut series. And she just. It was cruel seduction. It was such a beautiful representation of a polyamorous relationship. Where you have, it was two male characters and two female characters, so when the book started, I assumed they were all just going to like get in together. That's not what ended up happening. You ended up having spoiler alert for anybody who hasn't read this book yet. You have your main female character, main female character. She ends up getting married to the main male character. She's in love with a different male character and her husband's best friends with a female character Following. So far.
::Yes.
::Okay. So of course the married couple have sex and, like their chemistry is off the hook. He ends up getting together with who she's in love with, and she ends up getting together with his best friend.
::So they have an open marriage.
::Unintentionally, but yeah.
::Okay.
::So what ends up happening is they? It's I love this story so much. The two females end up being in an open relationship together. She moves in with the couple, her, the, her. The love ends up falling in love with her husband, which gets reciprocated, so like the three of them are kind of in a menage, while she also has this really beautiful relationship with the best friend and the husband and like a really beautiful relationship with the person that she was in love with.
But like the person she was in love with and the husband don't interact with the girlfriend.
::Okay.
::It went like. It went in a direction I wasn't expecting and it was. It was amazing and I loved it.
::So does she end up with? Does she end up with both guys?
::She ends up with everybody yeah, so she ends up with. So it's almost like for her. It's almost like a why choose? Because she ends up with the yeah, so she ends up with. So it's almost like for her. It's almost like a why choose, because she ends up with the female, her husband and her love interest.
::Oh, okay, I love that you don't get a lot of reverse harems, or why choose where there's a female thrown in the mix?
::I need that in my life. I need more. I choose reverse harem where it's, where it's mixed company.
::Okay, Now I might have to read it. I mean, it's already on my list.
::but there hasn't been. I've read every single book that has come out in that series and I have not been disappointed by a single one of them.
::And.
::Neon Gods is in the top five and Hades from Neon Gods is in my fake reverse harem.
::Oh my God, we are totally doing an episode where we build our own reverse harem.
::I posted my reverse harem on threads yesterday.
::All right, we have one more left. You want to do it? I mean you do it, you do it. You got this. Oh, you want to do it you? I mean you do it you do it.
::You got this. Oh yeah, okay. Well, I feel like we kind of sort of talked about that. Yeah, I feel like the polyamorous relationship and cruel seduction, like kind of representation of this, you have mmf and then mmfm, so like, is everyone just?
::so that I don't know yeah so it just it could mean a lot of things. I know for the mmf. I'm pretty sure that means that all the males are having sex with a female and that the mmfm means that only some of the males are having sex, and then there's some males that only have sex with the female.
::Okay, so that's that. You see a lot of that type of thing in.
::Omegaverse, so like oh yeah.
::Would Mannix be considered Omegaverse?
::Yes, so Mannix is Omegaverse.
::So that's a good example. Like all of her books, there's typically not not all of the males are having sex with each other. It's normally like one or two of them only have sex with the female and have sex with each other.
::I love Grace McGintry, yeah, so that would be an example of MMFM, because some guys like you said, like Seven and Elle, they have sex with the two alphas, but the two alphas never have sex but they share the female.
::Yeah, yep, such a good series.
::Oh man, I love it. Those covers are just beautiful.
::Okay, are there any other terms that you thought of while we were chatting through all of this?
::Uh-uh, I think we did really well. I think we covered. I think we covered a good amount. I wasn't expecting it to take us this long.
::I thought it was gonna be like a quick, like 15, 20 minute well, I mean we gave examples and we got off topic a couple of times, so you know it's fine yeah, makes it more interesting.
::I'm really excited, okay, so we're done with that, so I don't. I don't have any more. I was it more interesting, I'm really excited, okay, so we're done with that, so I don't, I don't have any more. I was just gonna say I'm really excited about like the three potentially episodes that we have of trope and kink yeah, reverse harem reverse harem. And then what was the other one? Fuck that's not a book uh-huh, did we come up with three or just two?
I think that's it okay, when I edit the episode, I'll write them down, because I can't remember awesome.
::all right, friends, did we cover all of the book terminologies that you feel we should have covered in this episode? If not, let us know and we will comment back to you. Okay, and we will see you next week.
::Thank you for joining us on the journey into the shadows of love, where dark romance stories come to life.
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Transcribed by https://podium.page
