Episode 6
What makes a good heroine?
Listen in as we unravel the intricacies of crafting strong, compelling heroines in fiction, shining a light on the characteristics that make them resonate with readers and viewers alike. We share our personal favorites.
Content Highlights:
- Traits of a Female Main Character
- Masculine and Feminie enegry
- Best Mic Drop in ToG
Fave Female Main Characters:
Charley Davidson by Darynda Jones, Mercy Thompson by Patricia Briggs, Oleander by J. Bree, Lara by Danielle L. Jensen, Sloane by Brynne Weaver, Saige by Britt Andrews, Elena by Nalini Singh, Feyra, Nesta, and Aelin by Sarah J. Maas
Other Books mentioned: Fae Isles and Crescent City
Transcript
Hello listeners, welcome to another episode of what's our podcast book.
::Welcome to the story. I would blame it on that Mistie hasn't had coffee, but she doesn't drink coffee, which is probably all of her problems. Honestly, I feel like coffee fixes everything.
::I would say let's just go home and call it a day, but we're already home. I know it's the only bad thing about working from home. So today, on the podcast, we're doing something a little bit different. We're actually we have a topic instead of one specific book, and it was Jenn's idea. It came up in one of the discussions that we were having I can't remember which one, but we wanted to talk about what makes a good heroine. I can never say that word right. Main female character female character.
::Yeah, I'm, I'm, and of course, this is all our opinions. Everyone's going to have different opinions on what makes like a good heroine, a good main female character, but I'm so excited because I feel like you and I are pretty much on the same page when it comes to main female characters. So, for you, what do you feel makes like?
::what makes you like root for the main female character or like really like her, whatever I like my main female character be a little mischievous, but I don't like her to give in so easily, like whether it's like to the wants or the needs, or like trusting, and I also like her to be kind of like able to step back and think like, okay, why is this happening? You know like not be emotional in the moment I mean sometimes, depending on the book, because we read a lot of dark that happens. You know somebody gets shot or you know like whatever, but at some point be able to think okay, I need to think logically or rationally. Why is this happening? What can we do to prevent it? Things like that happening, what can we do to prevent it? Things like that. That's what I like, which is probably like I would say it's a fantasy, but it is because it's fiction what are some of your favorite, like female characters that you've read?
oh, lordy. Um, I'm gonna have to say Charly Davison from the Charly Davison series by Darynda Jones, which I'm pretty sure we've talked about on this podcast before. She's got the mischievous kind of like funny part. She's very strong, independent, dominant, sometimes panics in the moment and then sometimes like wait, why is there a floating elephant in the corner, like I don't anybody else see that? You know, like right, sometimes it takes her a minute. I would really have to say, oh man, this is really hard. Now I think can I look at my bookshelf? Okay, there's not a lot, because normally when we read the books I hate the main female character because there's just, there's just something.
So maybe not like maybe, especially if it's a series, maybe just parts so I'm gonna have to say Mercedes Thompson Hampton spoiler for those who don't know um, she gets married in the series. For the most part, I really like her and and what she stands for. The only thing that I don't really like about her and Adam, which is her mate, is they will sacrifice themselves or their loves for the greater good, and I don't like that because I feel like if you're soulmates, like you should, at some point you need to be selfish for yourselves.
::Yeah.
::And I think that is a is an issue. I personally, I think it's an issue in their relationship. I mean, they have a great relationship by paper, but that sometimes becomes an issue in the story because like well, no, you can't do that because blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. But besides that, I think she's she's smart, strong and she's a coyote, so very mischievous.
::I love it, wily little thing.
::Yeah, so what do you look for in a main female character?
::Okay. So one of my favorite female characters I mean she's the one I always think of, like when I think of a character that, like I have so little critique of it's Lara from the bridge kingdom series or the duet like she's incredibly intelligent, she does not think. Like she does not make decisions based on fickle emotion. Like she was. She was loyal to how she was raised to a fault and she was loyal to her love, almost to her detriment. Once, like she switched. Like there was no, there was no. Like do I, don't I, how do I, you know? Like once she figured out how she was raised was a lie. Like she was a hundred percent in with Aran and Ithicana and she was she's smart, she's cunning, she's um, she's cunning, she's um, she's gonna stand for, like what she feels is right, even if it makes her the villain in someone else's story, and that was something that I just haven't really seen done as well with another character. I just just I have no, no critiques of her. I feel like I'm going to like there is going to come a day when we're like incredibly popular from this podcast and I'm going to get roasted for this, and that's okay. I feel like Lara, and that's okay.
I feel like Lara is how I wanted Aelin to be. Aelin is incredibly smart, incredibly cunning, always 10 steps ahead, just like Lara. But where Aelin alienated herself from the people who cared about her most, Lara was looking to collaborate and work with the people who could make the end goal happen, whether she liked them or not, whether it put her at a disadvantage or made her vulnerable or not. And that's what I loved about Lara and why I think I struggled so much with Aelin's story. She had a more loyal group and having just as much smarts, but refused to trust anybody. Where Lara was like I have to get some help and like I'm going to put myself out there and like, be vulnerable and you know, go save, save my person, save at the Kana, take out dad, like the whole nine. So that's I, just yeah, she's. She's everything I would want in in a main female character.
::You gave me some, some goosebumps when you did that that comparison, some goosebumps when you did that, that comparison. That is like I know we've talked about it multiple times like I don't disagree with that, but I look at it from her standpoint of how how I mean? Okay, so this is gonna be hard because you just said you, she, she reframed when she went from the traitorous father to you know, her lover, but I don't know how they are very similar.
::Yeah, the way I feel, like the way they think is very similar.
::Yeah, and their upbringing almost, although I do have to say oh, I didn't even can think about that. Their upbringing is super similar, but hers was a little bit worse Because she was she was a slave for a year, so I think oh yeah. I think Aylans was worse, and then Luzon. What was his name? Sam?
::Sam yeah.
::So she lost the person that she trusts Because of somebody else that she trusted got him killed. So she had a little bit of reason to be distrustful. How many times can we say trust in a sentence?
::I know right.
::But and I come back to this argument every single time she may not have told them the full plan, but she told them hey, I'm going gonna go write some letters. Okay, the best mic drop ever.
::Okay it was a good mic drop moment, but I'm gonna argue I don't know that Aelin. I don't know that Aelin had it worse Because here and here's my argument. So Lara had to literally torture her own sisters and was trained. Not only was she incredibly abused, isolated from civilization and raised as an assassin with her sisters, she also had to practice what she was taught on her sisters. Then she had to deceive those same sisters to save them and do it in a way that, like basically almost killed them.,Aelin Okay,, yes, she was trained to this as an assassin, but she grew up in luxury, she grew up with not wanting for anything. She was absolutely betrayed and absolutely abused. I am not arguing that point, but like I don't know who had it worse.
::Okay, I concede you are right. I think my issue is because of how it starts. We don't see that on page, it's just we're just told that, and so it's kind of like out of sight, out of mind, because her official story starts after you know the fire and like moving forward. So, okay, I can see the, the torturing of your sisters, yeah yeah, the.
::the only thing that I I think is a really good point with Aelin and the fact that she doesn't trust anybody, is that she did lose Sam, you know, and I think that's why Rowan and Aelin work as well as they do, because they both hold space for who the person loved before them.
::Yeah, but okay, now I want to just flip it a little bit more. I still agree with you, but I just have to say this one thing, Lara, like you said, she's pulling people because she is looking for that connection. Because she was separated from it, she was isolated, and you know people who are isolated from things, from like touch, they crave it more than other people. So that kind of plays into it with and with her. Even though she was in society and was you know luxury, she didn't have any connections, except for Sam, but she saw how people were because of all the assassinations that she had to do, and that is another reason to be mistrustful and like being like no, no, I see how people turn on each other so easily.
You think that this is your friend, but it's really not so yeah but I think at the end, though, they're really great, even though they're different, they have paralleling stories, and it just shows how an author can write these great main female characters and still have a little what's. I don't know.
::There's a word I'm looking for, something like character flaws write these great main female characters and still have a little what's, I don't know.
::There's a word. I'm looking for something Like character flaws.
::Yes, Thank you. Yeah, I mean because I do think you have to when you're writing a story, when you're creating characters, like obviously they have to have flaws of some sort, like no one's going to come through and like not have it, otherwise you're not going to have like the development and the whole reason we connect with these characters, right. But yeah, I think, I think both authors did, did a phenomenal job of of writing, writing. You know both, both characters. The other, like two, well, yeah, I would say like the other two main female characters I think about is nesta and sloan. Yeah, sloan, I don't even think about sloan yeah, I, she's another one Incredibly smart.
Doesn't fly by the seat of her pants based on emotion.
::She doesn't.
::She thinks things through, you know, throughout the entire year.
::And she's a little mischievous.
::Very mischievous, yeah, I totally spaced on her.
::Oh, you know who I forgot to mention. You know who I should have mentioned? I should have mentioned ollie from bonds. I love her, it's my favorite series. How the fuck could I not mention her?
::oh my gosh I thought about her, but I couldn't remember my brain but I think what bothers me about ollie is she ollie is the same thing like Aelin.
::She kept everything kind of like close to her chest at the beginning because absolutely everything that was happening to her. But once, once that that the trust and they bonded it, she, you know everything came out I really liked. I really, yeah, I can't believe I didn't favorite series, favorite character and I just nah, you know what, you know why? Right, because I looked this way and those books are right, that's true, because that's where Sloane is too.
::I think, what bothered me about Ollie. And why like? Because the books I think of are Bridge Kingdom, Akatar, Butcher and Blackbird, oh my God. Bonds, and then Emerald Lakes.
::Oh, yeah, bonds, and then.
::Emerald Lakes. Oh yeah, those are the books that immediately came to my. When we're talking about female characters that we liked, that came to my head. But the reason I didn't mention the women from Emerald Lakes or Bonds is because I feel like both and I obviously loved both characters, especially in Emerald Lakes. I feel like Ollie has a lot of immature moments throughout the series and I feel like it helps her development. She's obviously younger than the other characters that we've talked about, or she's the same age as Aelin, I think. Possibly I think she is. Yeah, I think they're both 18 when the series start, where Lara, I think, is 22. But anyway, I think what bugs me about ollie and then what's the girl from emerald lakes name?
sage really I would never have gotten there ever, is it really?
::I'm I'm looking it up.
::I feel terrible, it's sage don't feel terrible.
::Welcome to my world of not knowing the names of anything or anyone. Okay, um, okay, it doesn't say her name in the blurb. I'm I'm pretty sure, because it's Sage with an I.
::Yeah, you're right.
::Okay.
::Yes, yes, you're totally right. Yeah, you are Okay. So I think what bothered me about Ollie is she had like she just acted her age several times throughout the series and that like like annoyed me and then with saying like that entire series I feel like is so fun and so like not quite serious enough that I I take the females characters. I don't take any of the characters seriously, like there's still some of my favorite series and like I love them.
But I feel like you like they're lower stakes stories, so I don't think of the main female characters as strong as higher stakes series. Actually, I guess is where my brain went.
::I can. I can see that, so now I want to throw a series that we've both read the guild hunter series with Elena. Where does she fall into this?
::Oh man, that's such a good one. God, I love her so much. That's a series.
::She was going to be my next one yeah, I, I would totally, totally agree.
::She's incredibly smart, she doesn't. She really is like the reason in the relationship so often of the time because rafael struggles with emotions so much because, he's been ice for so long. Yes, you know that's a series that I don't think about as often, and I think it's because I binged like 20 books in like three weeks.
::I wonder who would make you ever do that.
::Yeah, no idea. How many series do you owe me?
::Whoa, whoa, whoa her, do that. Yeah, no idea. How many series do you owe me, whoa?
::I'm reading fae isles. Okay, you are, you are you are reading . I'm in Crescent City, see, it's right here um, but, but yeah, she's another one that like there was no point through that series that I got frustrated with her. I was just like she's such a badass and I love her.
::Yeah, she's, there's something about and there's no, what's the word? Even though there's like five millennia I think I don't know a long time between Raphael and Elena, they still have a way of compromising and balancing each other, which sometimes, when you see a big age gap like that, you don't always get that One will try and be. Not that he doesn't try to be superior over her. I've been, you know, alive longer than you. I know what I'm talking about and she's like no, you don't.
::Right yeah.
::That means nothing.
::They balance each other out really really well.
::So, I think, that has to be something that I like with a good main female character is they have to help balance each other.
::Absolutely. Yeah, I agree, I agree with that too, and I think that's another. I think that's a really great point because I'm thinking about the different like couples of the relationships we've talked about and like, even though Aelin and Rowan, like I could give two shits less about that relationship, they do work really really well together and Lara and Aran work really well together. Um, obviously, Sloane and Rowan are like chef's kiss, love them so much, but the Cassian and Nesta and I think like Nessian is even better balanced than Rhys and Feyre and be very careful what you say here, because I'm essentially Nesta like in the real world, so uh-huh what you gotta say there, sis I fucking hate the staircase and I cannot get past that.
::I like Throne of Glass better than I like ACOTAR.
::And that's I mean. I completely respect anyone who prefers the story in Throne of Glass over ACOTAR because, thrown a glass, there's so much depth there through so many storylines and characters that I it does make sense. Is it my favorite over the two? No, acotar is like my number one series of all time.
::I think and I know I bring this up all the time and it's very repetitive and I'm sorry I think that because I'm a mood reader and I was forced to read ACOTAR first that yes, I went in it. Yes, I read all the books in a week. Nothing stuck with me, Whereas once I got into the world, and then we came around and then did Throne of Glass later on. I was like okay, it was easier for me to get into it, which is probably why I resonated with it. Which right?
but, I didn't connect with those characters as much as I did the other ones and that might be why I she would be. She overcomes a lot and I understand as the big sister, but also as the big sister I think that she did her other two sisters really wrong and I struggle with that a little bit and so I couldn't really connect with her and I think that's why she's not. She's not up there for me but when I reread it I mean, who knows, it could change.
::I think, I think I think I I resonated with Feyre so much in the first two books because of how she took care of her family and like the way her and Reese's relationship developed. And I didn't, I didn't feel like a fair, but when I was reading silver flames, her trauma and anxiety was so aligned with mine, like obviously didn't see my dad stabbed, I did watch him pass in front of me and that type of trauma and like her coming through it and then the anxiety on top of it and pushing people away and not feeling good enough, like all of that was 100%. Everything that I have felt, you know, over the course of my life and the way her and Cassian, like the way that Cassian champions her throughout this, this, the book, and continues to extend his hand, and like it was just. It healed pieces of me through that story and I feel like that's why Nesta is such an impactful character for me, not because she's like this super strong, amazing female character that's like smart and cunning and like pulls everybody together, but it's almost.
I love her because she's the opposite, without being a ditz, like she's still very smart, she's still, you know, she absolutely adores and loves her family, but because of her trauma she didn't have a way to express that, and the way SJM wove that throughout her like Nesta's story not Akatar, but like in Nesta's story was just, it was something that resonated so much with me. So that's, you know. I think that it's a different way to make a strong female character. I love that. I love how you broke that down and wove its own story.
::See, I wish I would have had that thought process going in with the book, because then that made it. That might have changed my perception of her, because, you're right, she's not this warrior, or she's just a no Well, spoiler alert.
::I mean for that world.
And yeah, she's a nobody I hate to say that, but and she's got to find her place in this world, yeah, and so she fights and she struggles and then at the end she's got her redemption Well, and I think by the end she is a warrior. I think Feyre, you know, I think Feyre comes in and you're like, you know, she obviously has a warrior's heart, she obviously has like everything you're looking for in a, in a, in a main, like a strong female character, where Nesta, you know, at first you mostly just can't stand her because she's a fucking bitch, but once you learn about why, then it's a totally different person.
::So I'm seeing a theme with us. We like a warrior. Female main characters I mean Elena the same thing, yeah, you know Sloane in a different way, like she's taking, you know, her vengeance. Yes, a lot more interesting ways than some of the others, but that's. That seems to be the the key theme. But they could still be feminine too.
::Yeah.
I think we're past the point in literature currently where women, who need to be saved, are what we're drawn to. I think we're in such a time, socially and culturally, that women are stepping into roles that we haven't seen before in positions we haven't seen them in before, in spaces we haven't seen them in before. So we want that representation in our literature too. We don't want the damsel, or at least in my opinion, we don't want the damsel in distress, and we talked about this in the Butcher and Blackbird episode. There were times where Rowan had to go save her ass, but there was just as many times that she saved his ass.
::Yep, and I think, to kind of play off that, where you're talking about what we're looking for, we, because all of these women are warrior women, but when they find their counterpart who helps take that, that weight, then they can step also into theirinity feminine side, which is what we want, right, we don't always want to have to be the strong, powerful one. Yes, we want to be balanced and on equal ground, but at some point you need to take that masculine and you need to be the masculine and then, allow me, to be feminine, and I think that that's very hard. Which is why we love book boyfriends is because they give us that.
::Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree. I think and maybe that's what I struggled with with Aelin and Rowan's relationship so much I don't feel like there was any point where she put down like her guard or or like like she stayed and her that's actually really really good point.
::She stayed in that masculine energy throughout the entire series the only time I could think of her stepping out of it is when he's training her and like doesn't she like break down and cry or like lose her shit or something, and that's what pivots their relationship does she did, I make that up. It's possible.
I made that up I mean she has a, she like I don't remember I bet that's the only time that I remember her being vulnerable with him and it gets him to see another side of her, and then that's when their relationship, you know, is reframed. But again, yeah, she holds that masculine energy like the whole entire time, even though she has, which there's nothing wrong with it. See, now you got me second guessing things and I don't like this, Jenn I will.
::I'm, I was trying, I'm thinking of like they, their different, like big scenes, and I can't think of. Well, I guess she was softer, like when she was working in the kitchen, like once she, you know, kind of warmed up to the to the two guys when she was working with Kael and he showed up like unannounced and she ran to him Like that was another soft moment.
that didn't, that wasn't trauma induced, because obviously you have this incredible moment after she escapes Mauve, mauve, maeve, maeve, maeveve, mave, mave, mave, um queen mave evil woman yeah, evil, evil lady, like she had, you know, she has that whole breakdown scene with him then, but I mean even even like right after that moment, she turns around and saves Fenris, yeah, yeah. So I think I think it's a really, really powerful point that you made that like we love the warrior heart, we love like warrior women who also are given the opportunity and the space and the safety to like be vulnerable with the person that they're with, because that happens with all the other couples that we've talked about.
::I love it.
::Me too.
::That was a really powerful conversation it was.
::It was so good. I love books.
::I know Me too.
::They're so great great they bring magic yeah, they really, they really are. They really are magic. Okay, y'all, now that we've kind of given our opinions on the character traits that we feel make a strong female main character, what are the character traits that you like to see in your strong female characters and let us know on Instagram or TikTok or send us an email. Links are in our bio. We'll talk to you next week.
::Thank you for joining us on the journey into the shadows of love, where dark romance stories come to life.
::We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bones of the Story as much as we did. If you did, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us.
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::Remember, our next tantalizing episode is just around the corner, so keep your hearts open and your senses sharp until then, embrace the darkness and let the stories continue to stir your deepest desires. This is Mistie and Jenn signing off from Bones of the Story.
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