Episode 9
The Works of Sarah J. Maas Part II
Listen in as Jenn and Mistie continue to unpack the complex worlds created by Sarah J. Maas. Join us as we share our final thoughts and ratings, encapsulating the impact of Sarah J. Maas's storytelling mastery.
Content Highlights:
- Secondary Characters
- Strong Female Characters
- Favorite Scenes
Crescent City
Jenn's Rating: Darkness 3, Spicy 1, Overall Book One 4, Book Two & Three 3.5
Mistie's Rating: Darkness 3, Spicy 1, Overall Book One 4, Book Two & Three 3
ACOTAR
Jenn's Rating: Darkness 1.5, Spicy 1 (ACOMAF 2 & Silver Flame 3), Overall 5
Mistie's Rating: Darkness 1.5, Spicy 1 (ACOMAF 2 & Silver Flame 3), Overall 3.5
Throne of Glass
Jenn's Rating: Darkness 4, Spicy 1, Overall 5
Mistie's Rating: Darkness 4, Spicy 1, Overall 5
Other Books Mentioned: Bridge Kingdom Duet & The High Mountain Court
Transcript
hello listeners. Welcome back to part two of the sarah j maas conversation. Hopefully you've listened to part one. If not, be sure and check it out, otherwise let's jump right in. I do want to say, though, that she is very good about writing secondary characters.
::That I like, yeah, even yeah, I that I like.
::Yeah, even.
::Yeah, I think she does an incredible job of writing well-rounded characters, regardless of how little they're in the books.
::Yeah, Like Crescent City, it's Rune for sure. Yeah, I was hoping that there was going to be something magical about Sphinx, like maybe he was a shapeshifter and was like, and so I was kind of hoping, you know, not, I know it's not like witchcraft, but like a familiar that can, like shapeshifter, like be like a guardian or like secretly points them in the right direction, cause you know, sphinx is very smart, yeah. But yeah, I really you know who I really liked from Crescent City Isaiah. I want Isaiah's story.
::Yeah, I did like that.
::Yeah, I want him and the dragon to get together, that is so out of left field.
::I want to know how we still have. What's her name, Victoria, how like you've got Isaiah and I can can't remember the naomi, I think yeah naomi yeah, you've got like victoria or whatever her name is still at the bottom of the ocean. Like why it's like vaughn and throne of glass. Like what's happening with these people, like we're just gonna leave somebody at the bottom of the ocean I mean yeah I mean, we were on the ocean, queen's ship, we couldn't have gone and rescued our friend yep.
::I don't know if they know where she's at at the bottom of the ocean. The bottom of the ocean is a very vast place. Sjm could figure it out. I'm just saying she's got enough characters running around with their heads chopped off like chickens, like let's just. But I, yeah, I think isaiah and the dragon would be very good. That is so random. Well, at first I thought the dragon was probably going to end up like with flynn, because they had that. Yeah, he's like, I'm protecting you. I don't know if that's still going to happen, because I think ethan's going to end up with perry. Yeah, we know that merman is ending up with the chick that he married, which she's an idiot, wasn't even on the page that long and was an idiot. I don't know. Since the hellhound's mate died, does he get another mate? Maybe him and Naomi can get together.
Maybe Naomi's mate died in the battle, and now you have two mateless people coming together to become mates.
::Vaxian's story broke my heart, but I was busting out laughing at the end when he was like y'all need to get to Avalyn because there are flying horses around here. And I'm done.
::The pegasus are back. Oh my god, when that happened, I was like I think that my favorite secondary character besides finn in thrown a glass was lasandra.
::I think she was phenomenal I have such a girl crush on lasandra, like a secondary character. It's a toss-up between, like if I could go on a date with lasandra, or hellion, hellion maybe one of those two.
::I love him from akatar he I can't wait till we get his all about a river's harem absolutely. He's like who do you want, let's do this. Absolutely. He's like who do you want, babe? Who do you?
::want let's do this. Yeah, I love him so much. There's a guy on TikTok who is a very good-looking black man and he rides I'm pretty sure it was a, I can't remember what kind of horse it was, but I commented. I was like uh, uh, hellion, because like book talk was already in the comments. I was like, 100%, this is, this is my real life, hellion yeah, super sexy, loved him yeah, yeah, he's part of my fictional reverse harem.
::I'm trying to think. I don't remember there being any really big sexy scenes in thrown a glass, but I do know the most famous scene is an akatar and that's the cabin scene with the paint yeah, that's.
::I mean, it's like favor and reese. That's their. That's definitely one of their hottest scenes is chapter 55 and uh akamath. And then the other scene that's talked a lot about for the akatar series with favor and reese is when they're when they're getting it on in the tent after one of the battles and it's like the sound of the dying and injured around us.
::I don't remember that when they're getting it on in the tent, I mean when you're that close to death you have to feel alive some way.
::I mean there's no judgment here, but it's just one of of those like there's so many memes out there that it's like it's got like them, like doing it, and then over here they're like a thought bubble or like a um, a talk bubble. It's like sounds of death and dying.
::I don't remember. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to like reread Throne of Glass and Akatar yeah.
::Yeah, I mean I would say like the spiciest relationship in Throne of Glass was Manon and Dorian. They had a couple of really hot scenes but I mean they weren't even like.
::They were super sexy and really need their book.
::Yeah, yeah, they were very sexy and like Rune and. Lydia they were the sexiest pair, especially in book three, but I mean they had the hottest scenes in book two too. I mean I enjoyed Crescent City when I read them, but Bryce and Hunt just I don't know, their relationship just fell flat for me overall 100%.
::I agree, know the relationship just fell flat for me.
::Overall 100, I agree, where, like feyra and reese, they have such an incredible relationship. And the same thing with nesta and cassian. Like you get it's a, it's well-rounded, I think is what I love so much about it. Like they have fantastic chemistry but they also communicate and they help heal each other and they're both vulnerable with each other. Like Rhysand is incredibly vulnerable, incredibly emotional with Feyre and Cassian's. The exact same way with Nesta.
Even he was more emotional than she was because she had built her walls like so thick and I think that's part of the reason why I love and appreciate the akatar character so much is especially for like in thinking about sjm's characters like the men are so well written, like there's no toxic masculinity, masculinity like they're both so open about, like their emotions and like who they are as humans and their trauma with their mates. Like you, just you don't see that and I mean really you don. You don't see that in. I mean really you don't. I don't, like I can't. There's only one other character I can think of when you're, when I'm thinking about like romanticism, that has that same level of like, vulnerability and emotion.
::What Couple?
::You haven't read the series yet.
::Oh.
::So I'm not saying Fuck.
::Aren't I caught up on everything now?
::Um, I mean of the things you owe me. Yeah, Okay, it's the Plated Prisoner series.
::Oh, oh Well, we're doing that in a couple of seasons, yeah, so we'll, we'll talk about it then, okay, okay, I'm like wait, I'm just see, ruin is the last thing. Like I'm caught up, like it's rc of ruin conversation.
::I'm not even prepared and I would reread it, except I can't.
::So let's talk future talk. Let's do some speculation. Now that we've had the last crescent city book and we talked about how the relationship fell flat, how she was trying to probably make things different from kingdom of ash, are we terrified that she's going to carry that over into akatar or do you think that she's still going to stay true? Because if she, I feel like if she fucks up ACOTAR, she's going to piss off a lot of people.
::I mean I would be. I would be surprised if Sarah went the way of Crescent City with Akatar, because that's just not how she's written that series. At no point do you have like five different storylines going on. Like you know, lucien goes to wherever he goes to and talks to Jury yeah, jury, and it's not her name's, not V, not vespa, but I can't think of her name right now the firebird lady. Anyway, like you know, he goes, but you don't, like, you're not on that journey with him. Whereas throne of glass and crescent city, throughout this series you have multiple storylines, except, I think, maybe not in crescent city one, but in crescent city two. She's already introducing the multiple storylines and she hasn't done that at all in in akatar. So I would hope that she doesn't switch it yeah on this book.
I just don't see that making sense. But I what I'm wondering about the next book because the next book she's confirmed is Akatar is if I feel like House of Flame and Shadow set us up for another Nesta book. But I'm wondering how she's going to navigate that with Elaine and Lucien still not like having any type of solution any type of connection?
::or yeah, maybe she'll do shadow boys next.
::I mean it would be interesting for her to do because I mean you see Asriel so much in flame and shadow too it'd be interesting for her to do like an as real book that nesta plays a significant role in and have elaine end up with as real instead of her.
::It'd be interesting with gwen I completely agree, I was.
::I was an ezreal or elreal shipper until I read I think it was silver flames bonus chapter with azrael and gwen and I was like no, he needs to end up with gwen I'm sorry, but if Nesta can accept her mate then her little sister can accept her mate too. I don't, I mean, I don't disagree.
::But I feel like Lucian isn't doing anything to help that along. Yeah, but see, because he was told to stay away from her by everybody. Everybody told her, told him to give her space, to leave her alone. So it's one of those arguments where you can't have it one way to, where he respects the wishes or he disregards the wishes, because either way he doesn't win. And I think he understands that and that's why yeah, but like you can.
::I don't't know I struggle with that whole situation so much because it felt so unnecessary.
::Yeah, I agree, like they put tension there when there didn't need to be tension.
::There didn't need to be tension. Yeah, I think that's what bothers me, and Lucien is just the best, like he's just the best. I think it was Sorry. No, it's okay, there you go. I think what bothers me is asriel has this connection with elaine that allows her to slowly kind of accept the fey life and, like, connect with the wraiths and do the things that she enjoys. But it was asriel that helped get her there instead of lucian, and it and it creates these like muddied feelings, at least for asriel, and I feel like I feel like all of that is just not needed when I don't know, maybe the character like maybe the characters weren't sure who they were going to end up with when sarah was writing it yeah, it's an unnecessary love triangle but I'm gonna love triangle a love square.
::gwen's not really aware that she's there yet, that's true, but I think it was you who had the theory, and I agreed with that.
::Lucien should take over spring court, and then that's where she should end up with him, because she's a spring baby, yeah that's totally my theory Is that Tam will have his redemption arc by sacrificing himself at some point and the powers will go to Lucien, since, since he was the right hand, and then elaine and him will rule the spring court together. Why I'm going to that, instead of him ruling the dawn court, is because if anything happens to my boy, hillian, I'm gonna be pissed.
I second that like you cannot touch him and his pegasuses, absolutely not. That'll be war, yeah so, yeah, I think that's what I would like to see happen anyway, and I would love to see, like if, if not like if elaine and lucian don't get their own book, I would at least like to see a chapter, a few scenes, whatever, of Hellion and Lucian having the moment that, like Gavriel and Adian didn't.
::I have no idea what you're talking about.
::You know, Hellion is Lucian's dad, right?
::If it was in the book, I read it once, but I don't remember if it was in the book, I read it once, but I don't remember.
::So, feyre, I'm trying to think how she they're sitting. They're sitting at the. Were they at the summer court? No, they were something they were sitting at where they were doing the high Court's high or not late. Uh, the Lady of the Autumn Court I don't even know if we know her name, but we see her and Hellion. You find out that they had an affair and what Lady of the Autumn Court has done is pass Lucien's Lucien off as that's why his dad didn't like him.
::The fake dad Okay.
::Now, it's all remembering it's clicking.
Yeah, and Faye was like sitting in the meeting and she's mind talking to Reese and he's like whatever you just put together, get it off of your face in the meeting. And she's mind talking to Reese and he's like whatever you just put together, get it off of your face. So so, yeah, I think I that's, yeah, that's the whole. I want, I want Lincoln and Hillian to have like this really amazing moment of like hey, I really loved you and I'm sorry that, like this is how life turned out, but like now that you're a high lord, I can like show you all the cool high Lord things. Also, here's a Pegasus.
::Fan fiction. That's what I'm hearing. No one's here. That is not going to happen, okay. But, when I understand. When you read it, though, that is how you're going to imagine it, no matter the outcome, and you're going to be like isn't it great that helios gave his son a pegasus? And everybody's going to be like what the fuck are you talking about?
::that never happened you're going to be like yes, it did, yeah, it did, it's. That's my canon event is that helion gives lucian a pegasus or their firstborn child a Pegasus, one of the two.
::Yeah, okay. So can we just to like, for fun, pick a favorite scene from each series? Sure, absolutely, you go first. Okay, so I'm throwing a glass. My favorite scene, which I talk about all the time, is where everybody comes together and she's like I told you I was writing letters. Yeah, the best, the best mic drop ever. And nobody would have guessed that that's my favorite scene. But that was my favorite scene like, and that was the. Yeah, if I could like print that like, print that like scene out and like put it like on the wall with my posters, like I would, because it was just great, I need somebody to draw that scene and like hide a mic, like. I need her to be like doing a mic drop, like fucking phenomenal, it was great, I loved it.
::Okay. So for someone who, like I, didn't hate the throne of glass series but, like it just made me cry too much. But I'm trying to think of my favorite scene and there's actually a lot of scenes that I really, really loved, but this is gonna shock absolutely no one because it's such a light and fluffy moment but my favorite is when abraxos is distracted by smelling all the flowers, like I just I love that you put such a sweet flower smelling dragon yes, I'll give it whatever that is, that's a good scene I just, I love him so much yeah, no, I think that's a perfect scene.
::It's perfect for me. Yeah, absolutely okay. Did you want to share another one with her guys?
::we're going to act her now yeah, my, my other favorite scene also I don't know I would be. I would be surprised if anybody else has this is their favorite scene. This is such like a crazy horse girl thing. So one of the things that I loved about the throne of glass series and this is just such a random horse girl thing is sarah actually wrote realistic horses Like the type of horses she's talking about are Arabians.
They're very high spirited, they're very fast, like they're great, like they're agile athletes, like they're incredible horses. And it was actually written correctly because she's talking about a mare in the story and she's got like this wild spirit and all these things. Well, alide takes the mayor out to go find Lorcan and like the mayor and Alide just bond in this moment and she's riding through trying to find Lorcan because he's been mortally wounded and she ends up finding him, getting him on this horse and they're racing back to the castle before something happens I can't remember if it was the flood or something, but it was just it was so well written from like a crazy horse girl's point of view and then also, just like you know, leads this itty-bitty thing with this crippled ankle who goes and saves this seven foot guy warrior. And it was beautiful.
::Oh, I think I remember them now. Yeah, I remember that scene. Yeah, yeah, so, okay, I like that. I feel both of those scenes. Are you for sure? Yeah, well, yeah. So for ACOTAR this, this is probably gonna be really random.
I like the guys having a snowball fight oh yeah, oh my gosh absolutely I mean, that's a scene that sticks out in my head like, yeah, I, that's just it. You got these. You, you know big, high, powerful, baddie boys. And then they're acting like you know teenagers at the snowball fight, like it's so great. That's mine for ACOTAR.
::Do you have any idea how hard this is for ACOTAR?
::Would it help if you did one for each book? Probably Do one for each book, Okay, so the first book. I like it when she first meets Rosanne for the first time.
::Oh, at Cal and my yeah.
::I like that. I've been looking for you is that your favorite scene too?
::no, I mean the dancing under the mountain was kind of hot, but yeah dancing on the mountain was good. No, I think my my favorite scene, oh gosh, okay. In Akatar there's two okay. The first is when she's in the cell and resand sends her music okay to help yeah yes, but then you find out now.
Granted, you don't find this out until later in book, into book two, but I love that scene on its own. But what makes it a stronger scene in retrospect is you find out that what she's viewing when she's listening to that music is the rainbow in valaris. But he didn't send her those images and she had never seen the rainbow I didn't know that, I didn't catch that yeah, and it's, it's just like, I don't know, it's just, it's just so, I don't know.
It's just so beautiful. And I also think of the music that was composed by this woman on TikTok. She did such an incredible job of composing music for that scene that it also strengthens the scene. And then the other one that I love in ACOTAR is right when Rhysand winnows to the night court and he gets this like shocked expression on his face. But you have no idea why that scene stuck with me like. I remember thinking about that scene as I was reading Akamath and being like there's something there like what's like, what is that meaning? And that was my first, that was my like cinching the deal that Reese was her person, because I think he, he will, and we find out later that he recognized, like that was his mate. But in that moment it's like solidified for the reader, if you're paying attention those are really good moments okay, so akamath for you, is that the snowball scene is the snowball scene in akamath?
it might be. Actually that's what happened right, mm-hmm, maybe it might be in wings of wings and ruin, I can't remember okay, toggling between these two books.
::I like the snowball scene and I like the. I guess I'm having to pick another one, since we don't know which one. It is Right before they have sex in the cabin, where it talks about the initial or what the meaning of feeding your mate is.
::Yeah, there's just something about that.
::I love mates.
::He's like you're going to feed me. And she's like listen, I don't know what that means, so you're going to have to like explain it. Yeah, okay, akamath, my favorite scene I love when he sends her into the weaver's cottage to get her own ring. Like that's so fucking funny, her own ring like that's so fucking funny.
I also one of my favorites is when they're standing in the foyer at the townhouse and cassian and I think it was amaran, I don't know if azrael was there yet our state like cassian pounds on the door and he's like stop being a shithead and let me in. That's not exactly what he says, but fair is like why? How are you talking to the high lord like this? Like you know, like it was, it was a really neat. Like seeing Rhysand in his element and like having Cassian Ribbon and like he's a little scared of Amren and you have more mysteriousness, like it was. Just the inner circle is just so special. And then when she saves resand in the cave, like not only did resand give her the space and the ability to hone her skills, but she's able to use those skills to save her mate before she knows he's her mate and I, I, just I love the strength in that whole scene is that the scene where she makes everybody give him powers to save him?
::right, that's the same zine.
::No, that's in Wings and Ruin. No, that he gets. They're flying somewhere. He gets shot down with the poisoned arrows and captured. He throws her away from him so she can not be captured and, instead of like going and finding safety, she ends up tracking them because she was a huntress. Going and finding safety, she ends up tracking them because she was a huntress. She ends up tracking them through the woods, going into the cave.
::Okay, I remember now yeah. Okay, I remember the running through the forest.
::And she, she's like he scented, I think him going one way but she's like. But what they didn't consider is my smell. So she ends up actually following her own scent to find him. If I remember that I could have that meddled, but I'm pretty sure that's how she ends up finding him, because they try to throw her off his trail.
::Okay, so and that's the end of no, that's not the end of Reese and Farrah.
::they have that short the fire light one so you've got Akamab, and then you got Wings and Ruin.
::Okay, what's your favorite scene on that? Because we're just going to assume that the snowball scene is in one of these, because I don't even remember that book. Yeah, it's in one of can healing be my favorite scene right just everything.
::Yes, absolutely 100. That's allowed. That's my answer. Then my, my favorite scene in wings and ruin would be when, when their dad shows up with the ships to fight in the battle, who's dead? Nesta, farah and elaine's like? He shows up at the last minute like so nesta ends up running into or not, was it lucian? Somebody ends up coming to report to like the inner circle, as like in a battle update, and they see ships on the horizon and initially they think it's Highburn, but I'm pretty sure it was Lucian that come. He's like no, your dad went to the continent and like rounded up as many people as he can to fight this battle for the three of you, and he has three ships and they're named nesta, elaine and I'm crying, okay, so this is a total shock, because I thought their dad died in book one no, he.
He dies in in book three on that battle. The, I think, king of the king of Highburn kills him in front of them. Yeah.
::I know in front of.
::Nesta. Yeah, the king of Highburn comes up and ends up breaking her dad's neck in front of Nesta, and that's why she can't stand next to fire in her book, because it sounds like his neck breaking all over again.
::I think I remember that Okay, mistie's popular disclaimer this late in the series, or this episode. When I read these books, I read all of them in less than seven days, so there's a lot of smushing of things that I don't know or remember. I don't remember that at all. Sometimes I've also reread them four times. Yeah, I've never reread them. I read them four times. Yeah, I've never read them. I read them the one time and that's it. Yeah, I'm thinking I need to reread them again oh.
::I want to reread them for like the sixth time or something. Frost and starlight my favorite. I have two scenes. She's favorite in this shop. She's like doing Christmas shopping and and I cry every single time at this scene. But she is looking at this piece of art that this woman wove and it's like this really intense fabric, it's like blacker than black and this woman named it abyss, or I know it's a one word. It's like abyss, or grief, or wallow, something like that. And her mate died in the attack on the rainbow and that was the art piece that came out of it. And as Feyre's like standing there, she's's navigating her own grief.
I don't know the way Sarah wrote, it was just so poignant and this like with the like with the trauma of their dad passing and like all the trauma of that like it's. It resonated so much with me and have like that piece in that book it was, it was just written in a way that spoke to my own grief. So I love, I love that scene. And then my other scene is also a crazy horse girl scene. Morgan raises horses, you find out, and and she's like galloping through the fields in her own private estate and I just knowing morgan is a horse girl. Like I already had a girl crush on her, now she's a horse girl.
::I basically just want to get married between with her and halion yeah, and then of course, she can be my favorite character, because now she's got a stalker, and we know I love the stalkers. So I don't know. That's the scene where she feels like somebody's watching her in the woods. Right, yeah, she's got a stalker, and we know I love the stalkers. So that's the scene where she feels like somebody's watching her in the woods, right, yeah, she's got a stalker. It's totally my trope. I'm down. Let's do it, okay. I don't remember anything specific that stood out. I just loved that whole little novella as a whole because it showed them life after constantly being battle mode. Yeah, I love that normalcy of I need to figure out what I'm doing. Let me start this craft thing in this old you know. Like, let me meet a friend who's outside of you know, reese's circle, like. I just loved the normalcy of that book.
Yeah, I did too I appreciated it a lot more because, I mean, this is romantic, there's a love story intertwined. But even if you took well, maybe not with akatar, but when you get your hea, you don't normally get the aftermath of it in a lot of right, like you may have an epilogue that jumps like five years or whatever, but this is like reasonably relative to the end of it, and then them trying to acclimate and like, okay, well, what the fuck do we do now?
::yeah, yeah, yeah, I love. I know there's so many people that can't stand Frost and Starlight, but I love Frost and Starlight. Okay, favorite scene in Sliver Flames.
::I don't know if it counts, but I really liked that the wind of the house talked to Nesta and became her friend and when it gave her a book. Yes, like that's the only thing I mean, besides the scene that I fucking hate, which is the stairs that's the only thing that like really stands out. Yeah, besides hers, there's something at the end with the bed and like saving her sister.
::I don't know.
::The house giving her a book. I'm just like I'll be your friend Give me all the books. I love the house, you know, give me all the books.
::But yeah, I liked that scene. Scene in uh silver flames is when cassian forces nesta to take like the seven day hike and she ends up breaking down at the lake. That was really cathartic.
::The whole book for me was cathartic that I don't disagree with you. That's a powerful scene and there's, oh my goodness there's not a lot of dialogue, it's just her internal processing, like we're gonna walk until you walk. You know, walk out of it, like walk out of this dark mood. That was the best he could have did for her yep, yeah and like.
::And I think what I love about, I think why I love Cassian so much, is he is able to give what each of them need when they need it.
Like with Feyre, like when she has the moment where she's like like doing punches with Cassian and she she ends up burning out base, not quite but basically and Rhysand comes over and like shelters her but in the moment Cassian's just taking it like literally getting his hands burned, but he is able to be there for her in that moment.
Just like with Nesta, he challenges her but when she needs that introspective space, he gives her the tools to do it in a way that allows her to face her trauma while supporting her basically by just being there. And like I don't know their relationship, I'm such an emotional person like their relationship and like them navigating the trauma and him supporting her without like needing to fix it like. It reminds me so much of how, like Mike and I have navigated the traumas that we've gone through together and how he he's done that for me in so many ways in, you know, our own real life way and like seeing that on paper and seeing that character journey. Just I don't think I've ever had like related to a character, the way I did with Nesta and like the way I see Mike and Casper and Cassian.
::I love you. I love that. Thank you for being vulnerable with us. I have a new appreciation for Nesta now yeah, yeah, she's just I don't know.
::I think she's one of the most real and relatable characters I've ever read and, granted, like her trauma and my trauma are so similar that I feel like that's part of why I relate to her so much. But Sarah just did such an incredible job of really navigating that journey in such a realistic way in a fantasy world. I'll always commend Sarah for that alone.
::Yeah, I think I might, because I was rushed in reading everything. I don't think that I can appreciate everything as much, and I think I was blinded by the staircases in Nesta's book because I couldn't get over that rage. Yeah, that this time around when I read it I'm skipping the stairs like I'm just I don't. So thank you for sharing that. I love that and then okay, so crescent city yeah.
::Yeah.
::I don't, I don't, you go first.
::Oh my gosh, okay, so my, I mean it's, it's easy. For me, my favorite scene in book one was when Bryce does, does the drop. Like there's the drop with Danica, and then when the prime sees her on video and he's like there's a wolf in the square and it's Bryce fighting, like those two, and they happen, I think, within probably the same chapter, a couple of chapters of each other, like that whole sequence of events. Oh my gosh, I was, I was a mess.
And I think again Sarah like, and that I think, oh, I know we're basically out of time, but like, I think that's what bothered me so much with House of Flame and Shadow, is the Bryce that like ran into the square to save the humans, to make a difference, that made the drop, that like ran into the square to save the humans, to make a difference, that made the drop, that fought for love, like that Bryce wasn't book three. I agree, I feel like I missed that like emotion, that passion, that compassion, like that empathy that Bryce like was non-existent in book three and you could say it was trauma, you know, with thinking she lost her mate and being in a different world and getting back, like she goes through it, but like I feel like core personality wasn't there.
::And I feel like that was the disconnect.
I think that's part of the reasons why maybe I didn't like book two and three is because she was slowly slipping away from who she was and probably why I love book one so much. It's hard to pinpoint. I mean I know I just like read it on Friday but it's hard to pinpoint something because I loved it so much. I don't think of like it's one whole scene, but I loved how she treated hunt like everybody else, like she didn't treat him like the oombar or oomba or whatever his name is yeah she just treated him like any other person and like didn't give two shit.
I'm like she knew who she was, she knew who he was, but I really like that and then once okay, so one thing that we didn't talk about this happens shouldn't be surprised.
I think the whole thing of him being a traitor in book one that, like one chapter, was trash, it was a waste of space, it didn't need to be there. Like you could have taken that out and still had the same thing of micah betraying him and like selling him to you know the benadryl chick or whatever her name is. But I love that, even though she was upset, because this is one thing that we kind of talk about, where she goes to try and sacrifice herself to set him free, even though she's pissed off at him, yeah, yeah, and then he in turn does the same thing for her, but in the room where she doesn't see. I find it interesting that everybody like bowed down to him once the marker was removed, but everyone's like no, you let him do whatever he needs to do to try and save her and protect her, and then I don't know. I think the ending that's what we're talking about. Like the ending is that's what we're talking about, like the ending Is like pretty much.
And then Lili oh.
::Oh.
::I love that she called him Artie or Arthie or Aidy or whatever I'm like.
::Yeah.
::Artie and like yeah, and like oh, no, no, no, no, where everybody stands up for lily when she sacrifices herself and rune is just like yeah yeah yeah, I love that room is the best thing that came out of crescent city and I didn't like I loved him in book one. I loved him from the beginning.
::I loved the whole thing no, I couldn't have cared less about him in book one, like I didn't start liking him until I don't know, probably like the middle of book two, and then I just fell head over heels in book three.
::Yeah.
::There were three things Rune Dana knew with absolute certainty You're not going to get that. No I don't get it. Well, no, what is it? You're not going to get that? No, I don't get it. But what is it? It's the opening scene in chapter two or three, I think of Sky and Breath, where he's high as a mother. Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, okay, just like yes.
::So is that your favorite scene from book two? Yeah, I don't remember much else. Yeah, I don't remember a lot from book two. Yeah, I don't remember much else. Yeah, I don't remember a lot from book two either. I think it's book two where they have the call with her mom, or is that book one?
::I don't know. I didn't reread them and it's been. I read them in 22, so it's been two years since I've read both of those I think I enjoyed the part.
::It was little. It was little pieces that led to a scene like they're waiting till winter solace before they consummate their relationship. And she's like, oh my gosh, what was I thinking? I don't want to wait. And he's like, oh my god, I didn't want to wait either, but I'm respecting her wishes. And they're like dude, why are you guys waiting? And then they finally get together and she's like I don't want to wait. In the morning he's like, really, this is the time that you picked to tell me.
::Yeah, I do remember that that was pretty great. Or when he finds jelly Jubilee.
::Oh yeah, but that's in the first.
::I don't know, it may yeah.
::It's kind of a blur, but I think that was the first one. Yeah, she's like it's not a vibrator. He's like oh, I didn't think that it was really. Maybe, I think, one of the times before they get it on I don't know if it's book one or book two Like somebody's like knocking at the door and they're like are you fucking kidding me? Like really, this is the time you pick to come over. I don't know, but that would be my favorite. So all those little things that you know lead up to them, Because I can't think of anything else.
Yeah, and then the third one.
::I mean honestly the only scenes that I can really think of in the third. Well, shahar coming to hunt to help save Bryce, that was like Wait, wait, wait, say the names again.
::Shahar coming to help save Bryce. The okay, the Uh-huh.
::Previous lover, yeah, yeah, yeah, the okay, the uh-huh previous lover. Yeah, the ghost in the next scene, yeah, I just I loved that. I I feel like it, I feel like Hunt and I think he does still love Shahar. But I feel like that was Shahar's way of saying, like listen, you have a mate now, like let's go get her for you, and I just I loved that so much. And then the moment between Nesta and Ember where Ember's like you're gonna be okay, sis, like, like, gives her a big old hug, like I just Nesta needed that motherly figure so much and I love that Sarah gave her that in such a beautiful way and I'm really hoping that in the next Eckhart book we see more of like those conversations.
::I forgot about a scene that I liked in book one but we talked about it being at the end where she dies and he's trying to save her and he's like you cannot tell me that you love me when I'm unconscious, you coward. And then I was. And then he does the same thing in book three. He's like you cannot die. Like what is wrong with you?
you're my mate, like no, yeah yeah, yep, hunts got it, bad yeah, I think, I think that I don't know I just it's really hard for book three because I just really didn't like it. Like I didn't like that the hind had children, like that totally came out of the blue, like what the fuck? Like? Not that it's a problem, but I'm like totally rando. I think I liked the hell hound like following hunt and like trying to prove his worth to him and his little snark. Maybe the hell hound should end up with a dragon. No, and his little snark. Maybe the hellhound should end up with a dragon. No, he needs to end up with Naomi, because Naomi lost her mate too. I'm making this story up, total meta. But I think, okay, yeah, I think the hellhound following Hunt and then Hunt trying to save her and be like no, you can't do this to me again.
::Yeah, I think that would be my favorite. Yeah, my other favorite is when the pegasus come back and and backstands like get me out of here, I am done. And bryce is like yeah, like I can't. I can't, like like get laid right now because there's pegasuses on avalon yeah, that takes a priority okay absolutely so is there anything else that we missed that we need to talk about?
::this is definitely gonna have to be at least two episodes, at least two episodes.
::I mean I could seriously like the fact that I got to talk about. This is definitely going to have to be at least two episodes. At least two episodes. I mean I could seriously like the fact that I got to talk about these books for two and a half hours.
::I'm like in such a happy place right now Like I could talk about Akatar for probably two more hours and be totally you know we're probably going to have to do I mean, cause it'll, we'll, we'll end up talking about them with other episodes, but you might have to do like a hey, we just reread. Here are a few things we forgot to talk about, the forgotten things of Sarah J Maas, yeah, Of the monsters. So I'm thinking that we should rate each series individually.
::Because I don't think that we can rate them as a whole yeah In the world.
::So We'll go ahead and start with the newest one first, and I'm so. We'll go ahead and start with the newest one first, and I'm only saying that because I want to end on a high note. I know it's not going to help you, but okay, so for crescent city darkness oh gosh, I mean, I don't really think of these series as dark I'm thinking of three, I mean. I mean she's probably the one archangel's head, and like vacuum sets him on fire and then vacuums him up like if that ain't dark and twisted, I don't okay, that's you know what else is that's fair?
::we got people being beheaded, I mean I guess, like the umbra Mortis, is essentially a contract killer.
::Yeah, he's an assassin. So at least a three. I feel like it has to be a three. The hand Darkness for Crescent City Three.
::Yeah, I would agree with that.
::Spicy One. Yeah, I can go with one. For sure, there was nothing. Okay, darkness, we did darkness.
::Okay, darkness, we did darkness, oh shit, oh, I love you.
::Oh my Lord, man Anyways Okay. Overall rating for Crescent City, like the entire series. Right, yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna say the entire series because, trying to, I mean we could rate each book. I mean, should we rate each book we can? Actually, I, my problem is is going to be with thrown and Glass, because I don't remember individual books.
::There's no way I could rate each individual book of Throne and Glass, so I just do series after series.
::Okay, but I will. Well, I think maybe Crescent City and ACOTAR we can probably like do books. So, like for Crescent City, we'll do both. So for books, book one is like a four and then the series would be a three, because book two and book three would probably get like two stars each.
::No, I think for me book two and three would get three or three and a half. Because here's the thing. Did I like House of Flame and Shadow overall A little. Did I like Bryce and Hunt in Flame and Shadow Not so much, but Rune and Lydia.
::Okay.
::And like I mean really like their story and that's yeah.
::Okay, okay, I will, okay, okay, I'll give you that. I I concede you made an excellent argument and I agree I love that.
::I just said rude and lydia and you're like yeah, I agree, yeah, I mean I love ruin.
::He's one of my favorites, so okay. So crescent city, the first one. Four four and then two and three, three yeah okay, yeah, okay, and then akatar. So I think we should rate book one and I'm gonna say a two, maybe a three, I can't, I don't know what to do we can just do the whole. What? No, okay, and then I feel like book two, three and three and a half is like a three yeah, that's gonna be hard.
Okay, I saw your face. I knew it as soon as I said it that it wasn't right. Okay, I knew as soon as I said it wasn't right.
::Okay, I knew as soon as I said it. No, I mean, but I have so much more like personal connection to the series and characters than you do so like.
::If you feel for yourself, even though you're wrong, it's a three, then that's totally fine okay, so akatar series as a whole, I would say, is like between a three and a four. I think it just depends on where I'm at in the storyline.
::Yeah, okay.
::So it toggles, so it's like yeah that's what I would say. So ACOTAR as a whole is like we'll just say 3.5. Done, I'm just going to go with the middle. Yours is like 10 billion, right 10 billion at least Wait, we did this wrong. Hold on. We got to start with darkness first, then spice, then overall. We're doing it backwards, that's okay. So overall, now let's do spicy Three, two.
::I mean the only way it would be three is if you're like basically waiting until book five because there's not a whole lot of spice in any of the cabin scene considered very hot and spicy and sexy oh, it's very, it's very sexy. Yeah, I mean I, I think it's a, I think it's a fantastic scene.
It's it's definitely sexy, definitely spicy, but like that's the only one that's basically the only, although the one bed at the end scene was very hot with resan and feyre. It's the night before he gets captured in the cave. Actually, I've reread these books so many times.
::I'm going to take your word on that. It should be a two for peppers. I'm okay with that yeah, I mean yeah, or do you think a one we can okay, so what? The same thing that we did with um saints and sinners. Yeah, thank you. The overall it's like a one, but like if you think of the cabin, that's like a one, but like if you think of the cabin, that's like a five, and then maybe if Nesta has one, that's a five or four, like whatever. We can break it up that way too.
::I would say overall a one, I would say Silver Flames is like a three and I would say Akamath is like a two.
::I'm going to concede to your you're the subject matter expert, you're this, me in this. So yes, absolutely. And then the darkness.
::See, that's so hard because there, I mean Reese was essentially like essayed for 50 years, but you don't see it on page.
::Wait, I'm sorry, say that again.
::I said that's so hard because Reese Sand was essayed essentially for like 50 years.
::With the Chick Under the Mountain. So we know, we learn about it, but it's not on page.
::Yeah, it's not on page. It, but it's not on page. Yeah, it's not on page. Okay, so that's not on page.
::There is a lot of death and dying. They kill a lot of people. Yeah, so maybe two or three for darkness. Same thing would happen with not Maeve Moe.
::Yeah, I would push for three, maybe. Maybe I'm trying to think of each individual book. Like Frost and Starlight, there's no darkness. And then I was trying to think of like because obviously there's a lot of death and dying in the first three. Like good God, feyre stabbed three people as part of her challenge. Like ew.
And then there's a lot of death in book three because it's the big battle scene so there's all kinds of things happening, but then foreign like I can't remember any significant death or anything in book five. The only thing I can think of that would be like darkness. In book five is Nesta like self-sabotage, alcoholism, trauma, that kind of thing. And then she she's kind of sexually assaulted by the thing in the water I can't remember what it's called, not a basilisk, I don't know what it's called where it like drags her underwater and it's like shoving, its like long tongue down her throat.
Totally gives me the heebie-jeebies, and so she puts the mask on and like all of the things.
::Oh, okay, we're talking about Nesta. Okay, yes, I was like when does it happen to Farrah? I don't remember that at all.
::No, Okay, nesta Okay, yeah, yeah yeah, and the water. Yeah, but I mean really, aside from that scene in Silver Flames, I can't think of any battle scene or dying scene or anything in it. So I think you could honestly argue that it's only two darkness overall.
::Yeah, I don't remember it feeling, and because some of that stuff happens off page, I would agree with the two. Okay, I would almost say a one, because it's off page. What does our darkness scale say? Do we remember?
no we're the worst podcasters ever. We create a scale and we don't even remember the scale. Okay, so darkness one is off, page two, relationship, romance, three, environment, four, themes, five, all things. So yeah, one or two, maybe 1.1.5 schools, can we do that? Are we allowed to? I mean, it's ours, we can do whatever we want. We'll say 1.5, sure, yeah, I'm just feeling really like pointy today. Let's do points, all the points all the points yes, okay, throne of glass darkness, gotta be a four yeah it has to be four yeah, I agree, like it doesn't.
::No, it's a heavy fucking series, man, like that's why I won't reread it.
::I'm talking about like book one where she's in the salt mines book three or four, wherever she's locked in with the owl person, like that's literally kingdom of ash is that kingdom of ash?
::I think she gets captured in book five, empire of storms, I think that's book five. Uh, she gets captured and then kingdom of ashes I mean, half the fucking book is her being tortured like yeah it has to be, and I only because it's so heavy.
::But I also say that it has to be a higher score because with the other two series it doesn't end on. When you read a series like this, yeah, you get the feels as you go through, but normally your feelings stay with you on how you when you get to the end. Does that make sense what I'm trying to say? So, even though a whole bunch of bad stuff maybe happened, like a court of thorn of roses that's off page by the time you get to the end, your feelings or whatever it's, you know, like it doesn't carry with you through the series where I feel, like with throwing a glass, what's starting, you know, with you know being the slave, and like that carries throughout the whole series. And then it happens she gets captured again towards the end and so you're like it was like oh, we just did, like a loop de loop on a rollercoaster, like, oh, you thought it was over. No, here we go, we're coming right back. Or like, maybe around.
::Like if you start with the assassin's blade, you go from losing Sam as tragically as she did, and reading that scene was really, really dark.
::So that scene was really, really dark. So we forgot to talk about that, because I didn't read the assassin's blade. That's because you suck.
::I don't think it was necessary I think that is literally the foundation to the entire series absolutely not no, I mean you can read it without it, but you get a lot more depth within the series from that book. That's how you meet all the people you tell you're sending letters to.
::I know you meet everybody. I don't need to meet them. I just need to know that they got the letters. That's it.
::I vastly disagree on this. I know I'm like nah, we can disagree. No, this is like. No, you're wrong.
::Yeah.
::But that's okay.
::That's okay. So darkness four for Throne of Glass.
::Yeah.
::Spicy one.
::Not, if you wanted, Like you could argue that it's one because there are scenes, but like sure one. What's our?
::pepper rating.
::A green pepper is like basically nothing, and a one is like there are a couple of scenes.
::Less than three scenes is a one.
::I mean there's absolutely less than three scenes in each individual book. I think there might be three or I think between three and five scenes in the entire series.
::I don't remember them getting it on at all.
::Oh, it's very like. Not, it's not quite elite and lorkin is fade to black, but the other relations are like skated over I think I think we said dory and and and manon yeah, they had a couple so much yeah, so you want to know the connection I put together when we were talking about Ailyn being captured.
Yes, I just realized this and I got like chills. So one of the things that freaks Ailyn out after she escapes is she has no scars because they torture her so completely. She had all brand new skin. Lydia makes the same observation. Is that their Lydia? Or Bryce makes the same observation about rune? Because all it may have been Bryce, actually, because he had all of these tattoos covering up the scars that his dad gave him. And one of them makes the observation of like actually because he had all of these tattoos covering up the scars that his dad gave him, and one of them makes the observation of like none of those scars are there anymore I don't remember them disappearing yeah, because, and it was for the same reason, because he had lost, like they had to heal all of those okay so it's almost like a fresh start for him.
::You know his dad's dead cleanses. He can start fresh without those reminders. But for Ailand it's a little bit different.
::Yeah.
::It's almost like she not that she needed those, but those were like reminders of to keep the anger and to keep fighting. Yeah, that's a good connection. I didn't make that.
::Interesting.
::Yeah, so. So for spicy we're doing one. Yeah, unless it's manan and dorian, then it's like a three I wouldn't even give it that. I would give it a two really okay, then we'll just stick with the one I mean, I mean maybe a three.
::I think there's one scene where she's like still shackled, and that, um, okay so overall for thrown a glass four yeah, I was gonna say five, I mean oh okay, I'm saying five.
I love thrown a glass I I mean here, do I loved the story. I missed the romance but like the story. The way she dropped the, the Easter eggs from literally a book she wrote at 15 years old through, however long it took her to complete the series, how she tied everything together, the romance in Tower of Dawn, how she like managed all the timelines and storylines in Kingdom of Ash lines and kingdom of ash like she created. I can't even think how many characters 20 characters like at least that we deeply cared about, like like five stars.
::I was only saying four because I didn't want to hurt your feelings because I gave it 3.5. No, I mean I'll say four, but no five for sure.
::I love it like yeah you, I mean it was. If you, if you want a fantasy series for the story, the, the character development, the heart-wrenching relationships that you see with the characters and as they battle evil in the world, 100%, you need to read Throne of Glass.
::Strong female character. Independent, she's a warrior. Listen to our-.
::All of the female characters that's. I mean, that's like that's what I loved about throne of glass is all of the female characters played integral roles in the defeat of like the evil. Like you had irene, who came in through like healing magic, you have lysandra, who was a motherfucking badass. You've got aileen, of course, and then elide played her own role. You have oh my gosh, what was her name?
::It starts with a K, the other chick that was flying the birds.
::No Birds. Oh no, nezrin. Nezrin, that's her name. You have Nezrin who, yeah, she does the. They're not called griffins, they're called something else. You have Nezrin, you've got um, I cannot remember her name. It starts with a k and she ends up sacrificing herself it at like the headquarters of the main bad guy and causing causing an explosion. So lorkhan and a lead can oh, cassandra, not cassandra.
::Clarissa, clara, uh.
::Cassandra, clarissa, clara uh, she was the one that they mind manipulated her. Yes, like drained her. Like you have her. You have the girl that Lissandra ends up adopting. Like she ends up playing a role in the in the main battle. Like it's just. It's just such an incredible story of female empowerment and women stepping up and making a huge difference in their world because it's the right thing to do, regardless of how that they were raised. Look at how Manon was raised and she went against everything. She was taught to stand up for what was right.
::Kalten, kalten K-A-L-T-A-N.
::Kaltane.
::Kaltane, that's her name.
::Yeah.
::I cheated, I Googled.
::Oh well, if I could have found it fast enough, I would have looked it up. I just did.
::I just did, throwing a glass. Female characters.
::Took me to the fandom page and it has them listed.
::There we go, yeah no, she, I mean so well done.
::Yeah, I can't, I can't add to that like that was perfect yeah, but I think that's what makes sjm such an incredible writer is she's able to create such characters with emotional depth and realistic flaws and character development throughout the series. You can't help but root for them.
::That's true, I just love it. I love the adventure and I love a good female assassin. Like, yeah, there's just something about the female being assassin that I mean a guy being assassin is super sexy too, but a female it's like you kick their ass. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot Okay. So anything else, I mean this was a great talk. I'm really happy that we combined all of SJMs, because I don't think that we could talk about one series without talking about them all.
So yeah, I completely it would be really hard not to, so I don't have anything else. So if you don't, you want to close us out, beautiful.
::All right, y'all. If you have read SJM's works, what would you rate overall? The darkness and the spicy. We'll see you next time.
::Thank you for joining us on the journey into the shadows of love, where dark romance stories come to life.
::We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bones of the Story as much as we did. If you did, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us.
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::Remember our line at bones of the story at gmailcom. Remember our next tantalizing episode is just around the corner, so keep your hearts open and your senses sharp.
::Until then, embrace the darkness and let the stories continue to stir your deepest desires this is Mistie and Jenn signing off from bones of the story.
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